Free Capitalist Network - Community Archive
Mises Community Archive
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

I got drafted today.

rated by 0 users
This post has 81 Replies | 11 Followers

Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon Posted: Mon, Mar 23 2009 8:23 AM

The German constitution says that men and women are equal. Despite that, I had a rendez-vous today at the draft office that concerns itself with the processing of our male-only mandatory service programs.

I thought my plan was water-proof. I brought all my medical certificates about this ailment and that booboo. Plus, I figured, I'm so totally out of shape - they can't possibly conscript me.

But all in vain. After a senior medical examiner had checked the status of my balls ("you seriously need to take those pants off, sir, or I won't be able to look"), they told me I'm in.

Now I have the "choice" between one year of compulsory military service or compulsory civilian service. Since I don't feel like being yelled at by a jerk in a uniform, I'll probably opt for the forced civilian labor thing. They even pay me; 3 euros per hour.

I'm so excited that Dear Leader Obama and Grand Vizier Emanuel are working tirelessly to implement similar programs in the People's State of Amerika. Soon, many of you will share the joy I feel now for being granted the opportunity to become a temporarily enslaved drudge.

Glory to the state for this beautiful day !


  • | Post Points: 200
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,959
Points 55,095
Spideynw replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 8:41 AM

What happens if you refuse?

At most, I think only 5% of the adult population would need to stop cooperating to have real change.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 9:15 AM

Up to 5 years of jail.


  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 248
Points 4,355
Eric replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 9:47 AM

damn

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 10:03 AM

Byzantine:

Why don't you choose the option where you can get in shape and at least learn useful skills like how to maintain and shoot a firearm?

I will, in all likelihood, not get in shape during this basic training. Why will I not get in shape? Because after the first weeks of military training, all there is to do is hang around, wait for time to pass and booze. Especially the last one.

The gun aspect was intriguing, but for a drafted recruit like me, no extensive firearms training will be provided either. Plus, I don't think the military is the only place where such skills can be acquired.

I'm enough of a leftist to dislike the military, anyway. Too much hierarchy for my liking.


  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,511
Points 31,955

Quite honestly, I would suggest joining the military service.

Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.

          - Edmund Burke

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 10:32 AM

Byzantine:
Sounds a hell of a lot more fun than sitting in a cubicle somewhere.

Well, I'll be aiding the community, you know. Driving around disabled children, bringing old people meals on wheels or fixing some minor technical issues in local hospitals and schools.

I guess you've got a point here, but I have to say that extending high school leisure time for one year while earning a few bucks also has its appeals.

 

Byzantine:
Germany sounds like a pretty pussified place.

Did I mention that we have gender commissioners who make sure women are not discriminated against on the workplace?

 

Byzantine:
Right.  Because civil service bureaucracies aren't hierarchical at all.

I'll probably lack angry superiors when I'm bringing food to the elderly, and I guess I won't have to do 20 pushups for running a few minutes late. Doesn't mean I'm in love with the concept of civil service, though.


  • | Post Points: 5
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 10:34 AM

laminustacitus:

Quite honestly, I would suggest joining the military service.

For the same reasons as Byzantine?


  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,511
Points 31,955

Sphairon:
For the same reasons as Byzantine?

Essentially, also keep in mind that a minimal military service is not competely contradictory to a libertarian state, whilst a civilian service most definatly is.

Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.

          - Edmund Burke

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,687
Points 22,990
Bogart replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 10:39 AM

DO NOT SELECT THE MILITARY OPTION!!!!  The civil stuff is only annoying, pointless and wasteful, the military part can be fatal.  MORE OVER, the military bureaucracy may want you back!!!!!  Check for your military detachments in other countries, you will find it frightening.  Do you want to catch a bullet or other fast moving semi-molten piece of metal for Miss Merkel?  How about for a bunch of Albanians or Bosnians or Afgans?  How about for the President of the United States?

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 10:43 AM

laminustacitus:

Essentially, also keep in mind that a minimal military service is not competely contradictory to a libertarian state, whilst a civilian service most definatly is.

I know that Mises made this point, but I don't see a great difference between being forced, for a limited amount of time, to join the military or being forced to join the Red Cross.

On the other hand, I always wanted to drive a tank, at least for once. Maybe I should propose to aid the community by founding and commanding a local militia unit.


  • | Post Points: 5
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 10:48 AM

Stop giving sports teams money.:
MORE OVER, the military bureaucracy may want you back!!!!!

Yes, that's one of my biggest concerns. All drafted recruits are, to my knowledge, obliged to fight for the homeland in case of an attack. That may, in a distant point in time, mean for me to be deployed to hostile parts of Arabia which is not my favorite place for a holiday.



Stop giving sports teams money.:
Do you want to catch a bullet or other fast moving semi-molten piece of metal for Miss Merkel?

I won't do it for Miss Merkel, I'll do it for democracy.


  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,943
Points 49,130
SystemAdministrator
Conza88 replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 11:10 AM

5 years in jail...

Do they have any Austrian Economics books in the Prison Library? Big Smile

Seriously though, are you willing to fight in a World War? Because that is what you'll likely to be asked / told to do if you take the military option.

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 150 Contributor
Posts 659
Points 13,990
ama gi replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 11:29 AM

laminustacitus:

Essentially, also keep in mind that a minimal military service is not competely contradictory to a libertarian state, whilst a civilian service most definatly is.

Um, no,  Civilian service is not contrary to libertarianism.  Mandatory civilian service (or military service) is.

On the other hand even voluntary military service is very un-libertarian.  You are signing up to kill for the state.  NAP, anyone?

I wouldn't even want to join the American military.  As for the German military, with their proud and glorious history?  You gotta be kidding me.

 

"As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable."

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 7,105
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

wikipedia tells me that married men arent drafted.

how's about a fake marriage then?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 5
Not Ranked
Posts 81
Points 1,695

Explore all of your options.  There are usually loopholes in the system or ways of getting an exemption. 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 304
Points 3,965
Solomon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 12:29 PM

PeterWellington:
Explore all of your options.  There are usually loopholes in the system or ways of getting an exemption. 

Cutting off a leg should do the trick.

Diminishing Marginal Utility - IT'S THE LAW!

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,985
Points 90,430

Solomon:

PeterWellington:
Explore all of your options.  There are usually loopholes in the system or ways of getting an exemption. 

Cutting off a leg should do the trick.

Easier yet tell them that you can't wait until you begin firing a gun.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 7,105
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

say stuff about jews? ask your recruitment officer when you'll get the chance to invade poland?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,511
Points 31,955

ama gi:

laminustacitus:

Essentially, also keep in mind that a minimal military service is not competely contradictory to a libertarian state, whilst a civilian service most definatly is.

Um, no,  Civilian service is not contrary to libertarianism.  Mandatory civilian service (or military service) is.

Yes, civilian service is contrary to libertarianism: ponder the question of what a civilian service corps will be utilized for. Whilst a military can be used for legitimate self-defense, a civilian corps by its very existence presupposes the governments right to interfere in the economy for government-mandated projects.

 

ama gi:
On the other hand even voluntary military service is very un-libertarian.  You are signing up to kill for the state.  NAP, anyone?

A vountary military service can very well be used for legitimate self-defense.

 

 

 

Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.

          - Edmund Burke

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 283
Points 5,355

Considering consription as a demonstration in how people have been enslaved throughout history. When you stand there in line with many others, in identical clothes, with a mad officer in front of you, it is really psychologically difficult to oppose. After that experience you will understand why a heard of sheep let themselves be directed by one or two shepherd dogs...

Civilian labor, what would that be? Helping out in a public sector Kindergarten? I think that military service might be a better option for your CV, and more of a personal experience. Conscription is slavery. Feel it, touch it, live it for a year!

Byzantine:
The German military was one of the finest in the world, filled with many courageous and able men.  Too bad the Allies emasculated it.

Since Prussia doesn't exist anymore, German military lacks an irreplacable key piece of its traditional culture.

It's not fascism when the government does it.

“We must spend now as an investment for the future.” - President Obama

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 2:17 PM

Unfortunately, they do not examine your attitude or I would've listed all semi-automatic rifles in alphabetical order and told them I sometimes dream of marrying a shotgun (not). But if you're crazy-talking or acting like a moron in some other way anyway, they'll send you to the shrink and add that to your medical file. That'll be a nice little surprise to future employers - "has a mad desire to handle firearms".

Likewise, I could've tried the drug method, just have a doobie and let them test your urine afterwards. But not only will that also be added to your records (employers like high time preference, don't they?), it may also threaten your driver's license and whatnot.

In the end, every loophole (except for the marriage option) seems to have some big downside, especially if you ever plan to get a job.

ama gi:
I wouldn't even want to join the American military.  As for the German military, with their proud and glorious history?  You gotta be kidding me.

Today's Bundeswehr is a rather benign organization compared to the American military, but I'm not trusting the peace. They're using the same tactics that the Army has successfully employed to fill their ranks ("You'll be able to go to college", "Look at the great job opportunities here", "You're unemployed? How about some military service?") and they were proudly boasting on some ad posters how many countries they are in as of today.

Sure, as a draftee, the laws says I won't have to go abroad. Yet. But what if all the professional soldiers are overseas and the military needs some minions to keep domestic facilities up? Will the homeland then call me back in again? I'm expecting anything from these guys.


On a more positive note, I've spotted a civic service job that would entrust me with cleaning up and keeping an eye on some local forest. Isn't that greenie? Being in the great outdoors all day just like in the military, but without the combat aspect.


  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 7,105
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

would working for a german 'free market' institute count as a civic service?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Posts 871
Points 21,030
eliotn replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 2:33 PM

Sphairon:
The German constitution says that men and women are equal. Despite that, I had a rendez-vous today at the draft office that concerns itself with the processing of our male-only mandatory service programs.

I thought my plan was water-proof. I brought all my medical certificates about this ailment and that booboo. Plus, I figured, I'm so totally out of shape - they can't possibly conscript me.

But all in vain. After a senior medical examiner had checked the status of my balls ("you seriously need to take those pants off, sir, or I won't be able to look"), they told me I'm in.

Now I have the "choice" between one year of compulsory military service or compulsory civilian service. Since I don't feel like being yelled at by a jerk in a uniform, I'll probably opt for the forced civilian labor thing. They even pay me; 3 euros per hour.

I'm so excited that Dear Leader Obama and Grand Vizier Emanuel are working tirelessly to implement similar programs in the People's State of Amerika. Soon, many of you will share the joy I feel now for being granted the opportunity to become a temporarily enslaved drudge.

Glory to the state for this beautiful day !

Oh noes, the draft still exists!  Uh oh, prepare to be a slave!

Get out of the country, immediately.

Schools are labour camps.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,985
Points 90,430

Byzantine:
The military, like any other endeavour, is what you make it.  I am sure there are plenty of military facilities where you can join your buds and get fit on the taxpayer's dime.  Then go out boozing afterward.  Sounds a hell of a lot more fun than sitting in a cubicle somewhere.

Also once the state is gone there'll be a market for soldiers, not so much civil servants.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 2:43 PM

nirgrahamUK:

would working for a german 'free market' institute count as a civic service?

No. It either has to serve the environment or social service organizations such as the Red Cross. In short, all things that would make a liberal's heart pound higher.


  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 7,105
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

well, good luck with all that, tell us how it goes !

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,491
Points 43,390
scineram replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 3:04 PM

Byzantine:

ama gi:
As for the German military, with their proud and glorious history?  You gotta be kidding me.

The German military was one of the finest in the world, filled with many courageous and able men.  Too bad the Allies emasculated it.

 I am waiting for Juan, or Branpolice to arrive.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,255
Points 36,010
Moderator
William replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 3:09 PM

That's kind of suprising they have mandatory service, how many enlightend european countries force that on people.  The thing that bothers me is if the enlightend people in Europe do it and we have enlightend Obama as president, I don't think the majority of Democrats (their hypocracy still amazes me sometimes) will protest even a military draft. 

"I am not an ego along with other egos, but the sole ego: I am unique. Hence my wants too are unique, and my deeds; in short, everything about me is unique" Max Stirner
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 7,105
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

but then vietnam looms much larger in the american psyche than in the european, i would imagine?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,255
Points 36,010
Moderator
William replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 3:23 PM

Maybe if you hummed a bar from the song "Alice's Restraunt" you could get out of the draft?

"I am not an ego along with other egos, but the sole ego: I am unique. Hence my wants too are unique, and my deeds; in short, everything about me is unique" Max Stirner
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,985
Points 90,430

Byzantine:

GilesStratton:
Easier yet tell them that you can't wait until you begin firing a gun.

LOL.  Also, get an Iron Cross tattoo.

And change your name to Rambo.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

  • | Post Points: 5
Not Ranked
Posts 43
Points 1,325
Doubtus replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 3:46 PM

You can't get out if you have religious objections?

 

IMO, its better to have military experience. However feeble it is.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,651
Points 51,325
Moderator

Join the military service. It's a good chance to get in shape. Even if you don't do anything after basic training, you'll probably have access to some kind of work-out facilities.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,959
Points 55,095
Spideynw replied on Mon, Mar 23 2009 4:10 PM

laminustacitus:
A vountary military service can very well be used for legitimate self-defense.

Only if it is unpaid.

At most, I think only 5% of the adult population would need to stop cooperating to have real change.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 7,105
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

Spideynw:
Only if it is unpaid.

because a just action, when compensated monetarily becomes unjust?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 20
Page 1 of 3 (82 items) 1 2 3 Next > | RSS