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Barter, gold and silver

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lostinwilderness posted on Wed, Jul 8 2009 7:04 PM

Since barter is still legal (last I heard) in the US, what's to stop Americans from bartering for goods and services with gold and silver?

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Answered (Verified) AJ replied on Mon, Nov 9 2009 11:14 PM
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It's relatively easy to find someone who'll accept gold and silver as payment.

The problem is the other half of the buy-sell equation: It's illegal NOT to accept US dollars as payment, thanks to legal tender laws.

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No business can accept gold or silver, at least at their bullion value. Either way, Gresham's law still holds.

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

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lostinwilderness:
Since barter is still legal (last I heard) in the US, what's to stop Americans from bartering for goods and services with gold and silver?

Good luck creating a market with individuals willing to use only bartering.

Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.

          - Edmund Burke

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Why can't businesses barter in gold, silver or popsicles? Off to research Gresham's law.

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lostinwilderness:
Why can't businesses barter in gold, silver or popsicles?

 

Legal tender laws. They can accept American gold/silver coins, but only at their face value, not at their bullion value. So the gold eagle, which is worth $908 will exchange for $50 (I think, can't remember face value).

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

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I understand that coins can only be accepted at face value because of legal tender laws, but I'm talking about bulk trading. Is there a law preventing me from bartering a fraction of a raw ounce of gold for an iPod? Are gold and silver singled out by law so they can't be bartered in bulk?

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lostinwilderness:
I understand that coins can only be accepted at face value because of legal tender laws, but I'm talking about bulk trading. Is there a law preventing me from bartering a fraction of a raw ounce of gold for an iPod? Are gold and silver singled out by law so they can't be bartered in bulk?

Yeah, you can't buy an Ipod in a store with your gold coins at bullion value. If your friend has an ipod, and accepts 1/4th and ounce of gold, then go ahead.

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

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I actually don't know the answer to this particular one. But two problems come to mind:

  • You have to find someone who wants to take your gold and give you an ipod (double coincidence of wants)
  • If a dispute arises, a State court may rule payment to be rendered in dollars, not gold

Austrians do it a priori

Irish Liberty Forum 

 

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Esuric:
Yeah, you can't buy an Ipod in a store with your gold coins at bullion value. If your friend has an ipod, and accepts 1/4th and ounce of gold, then go ahead.

But is the difference between coins and bulk or the store and my friend? For example, If I own a department store, and I think that I'm going to have to raise my prices by 10 in a year and by another 10 percent the year after, can I just decide to except gold as barter instead? Can I run ads saying "Barter for iPods in gold and silver? No coins accepted." If I owned a store right now, I might well rather collect bulk gold (or canned soup, but that's not my question) than dollars.

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lostinwilderness:
But is the difference between coins and bulk or the store and my friend?

 

Store and friend, I think.

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

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of course the very reason that we use currency is its liquidability. the fact that it is accepted everywhere, easy to carry / transport, and valuable (for the above reasons not its inherent value) makes it the most suitable means of physical transaction.

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You know, there are over 26,000 merchants across the USA who accept silver and gold as barter items for payment.

I recommend you visit http://www.silverbarter.com to learn more about this.

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Answered (Verified) AJ replied on Mon, Nov 9 2009 11:14 PM
Verified by lostinwilderness

It's relatively easy to find someone who'll accept gold and silver as payment.

The problem is the other half of the buy-sell equation: It's illegal NOT to accept US dollars as payment, thanks to legal tender laws.

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AJ:

It's relatively easy to find someone who'll accept gold and silver as payment.

The problem is the other half of the buy-sell equation: It's illegal NOT to accept US dollars as payment, thanks to legal tender laws.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml

"There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise."


faber est suae quisque fortunae

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Esuric replied on Mon, Nov 9 2009 11:27 PM

Gold was worth $908 when I first replied to this question...

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

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