Free Capitalist Network - Community Archive
Mises Community Archive
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

The Day that Global Warming Died

This post has 64 Replies | 14 Followers

Top 500 Contributor
Posts 300
Points 5,325
NewLiberty Posted: Fri, Nov 20 2009 11:58 AM

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails

http://www.examiner.com/x-28973-Essex-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m11d19-Hadley-CRU-hacked-with-release-of-hundreds-of-docs-and-emails

http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091120/full/news.2009.1101.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8370282.stm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576009,00.html

"So the 1079 emails and 72 documents seem indeed evidence of a scandal involving most of the most prominent scientists pushing the man-made warming theory - a scandal that is one of the greatest in modern science. I’ve been adding some of the most astonishing in updates below - emails suggesting conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more. If it is as it now seems, never again will “peer review” be used to shout down sceptics."

  • | Post Points: 155
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,113
Points 60,515
Esuric replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:05 PM

HAHAAH, un-fucking believable.

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Posts 4,532
Points 84,495
Stranger replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:08 PM

The military does this all the time, that hasn't stopped the war machine one inch.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,113
Points 60,515
Esuric replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:10 PM

Stranger:

The military does this all the time, that hasn't stopped the war machine one inch.

Next time anyone tells you that global warming is real, merely send them the link, or email it to them.

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 139
Points 2,970
Magnus replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:11 PM

Fascinating stuff! Not sure if I should laugh or cry though Confused

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 313
Points 6,560
Eric replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:19 PM

How sure are you that these e-mails are real?

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,113
Points 60,515
Esuric replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:21 PM

Eric:
How sure are you that these e-mails are real?

Important question.

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,129
Points 16,635
Giant_Joe replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:07 PM

Eric:

How sure are you that these e-mails are real?

It is a good question.

I should ask Dr. McKitrick about the hockey stick stuff, though. He's a prof at my school. :)

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 170
Points 3,275
Arvin replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:21 PM

Giant_Joe:

Eric:

How sure are you that these e-mails are real?

It is a good question.

I should ask Dr. McKitrick about the hockey stick stuff, though. He's a prof at my school. :)

http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2009/11/hadleycru-says-leaked-data-is-real.html

They are genuine.

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 263
Points 5,075
Moderator
Le Master replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:24 PM

Giant_Joe:
I should ask Dr. McKitrick about the hockey stick stuff, though.

You should ask him just for amusement to see what he says. It's been thoroughly discredited a million times, though, and I didn't think anyone really used that nonsense as evidence anymore.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,129
Points 16,635
Giant_Joe replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:52 PM

Le Master:

Giant_Joe:
I should ask Dr. McKitrick about the hockey stick stuff, though.

You should ask him just for amusement to see what he says. It's been thoroughly discredited a million times, though, and I didn't think anyone really used that nonsense as evidence anymore.

Sorry if I was ambiguous, but McKitrick is one of the people who discredited the hockey stick nonsense.

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 353
Points 5,400
nhaag replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 2:13 PM

Well, my experience is that a religion doesn't die that fast. Debunking something doesn't make it go away once people have faith in it.

 

In the begining there was nothing, and it exploded.

Terry Pratchett (on the big bang theory)

  • | Post Points: 20
Not Ranked
Male
Posts 65
Points 1,340

nhaag:

Well, my experience is that a religion doesn't die that fast. Debunking something doesn't make it go away once people have faith in it.

 

Agreed. I have a friend who can be classified as a "true believer" in AGW. His faith in the IPCC rivals even his personal religious faith. I've poked, I've prodded, I've provided evidence. Nothing works. It's gotten to the point where he won't even read the information I send.

Though, I can understand the resistance. He invested a lot of time and energy in this nonsense, both school-wise and career-wise. I'd be resistant too if I had a sweet government job which required me to pump out worthless grant applications, articles, and "education" about alternative energy/AGW.

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
Posts 1,485
Points 22,155
Kakugo replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 4:29 PM

You could have Isaac Newton rising from his grave to speak against Global Warming and it wouldn't work. As they say it's religion.

Right now only the EU is desperately trying to push the issue ahead no matter what while the USA seem to have finally realized they have more pressing issues to tackle: my guess is that President Obama will continue to pay lot of lip service to the Global Warming movement but won't do anything more than a mild increase in taxation and I have doubts even about that.

Together we go unsung... together we go down with our people
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,255
Points 36,010
Moderator
William replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 4:30 PM

Have any MSM outlets coverd this yet?

"I am not an ego along with other egos, but the sole ego: I am unique. Hence my wants too are unique, and my deeds; in short, everything about me is unique" Max Stirner
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,129
Points 16,635
Giant_Joe replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:11 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8370282.stm

They mention hacking, but nothing about the actual suff that was taken. Figures.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,592
Points 63,685
Sieben replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:13 PM

Is there like somewhere that all this information about the hackings and what they found can be found?

Banned
  • | Post Points: 50
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 300
Points 5,325
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 263
Points 5,075
Moderator
Le Master replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:25 PM

Snowflake, check your PMs.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,129
Points 16,635
Giant_Joe replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:35 PM

Thank you. I'll do my part to help preserve the evidence and spread it.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,914
Points 70,630

there's some emails posted here.  one guy was really hesitant about doing this.  he said he could see special interest groups doing this but not them, not scientists.  they even wondered if this could be brought in front of the senate at one point.

"Do not put out the fire of the spirit." 1The 5:19
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Posts 3,415
Points 56,650
filc replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:45 PM

Is this really for real? I know people have already asked this....

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Posts 3,415
Points 56,650
filc replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:47 PM

NewLiberty:

This torrent is broken, where else can I get this information or the exchange of emails?

 

EDIT: NM it works. Something was wrong with my browser.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 263
Points 5,075
Moderator
Le Master replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:50 PM

filc, I PMd emailed you too in case you don't want to download via a torrent.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 867
Points 17,790
Sphairon replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:55 PM

This needs to be picked up by everyone on the 'politically incorrect' spectrum. It's almost too good to be true.

Now, it's not just in-your-face coincidences anymore, such as Gore making money off of carbon trading or the hockey stick fiasco, but actual statements from actual AGWists one can point to. I would hope the core of true believers is not big enough for this to be just ignored.


  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 263
Points 5,075
Moderator
Le Master replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:05 PM

The Statists don't care. I've already seen hundreds of comments like the following:

Random Statist:

so given that this may (or may not) invalidate a handful of scientific papers produced by a specific team, why is this relevant on the larger scale, given that modern climate science does not rely on any single paper? there are literally thousands of papers on the topic of global warming, and they're all pretty much in agreement. if a couple of them are removed that doesn't change a whole lot; you might as well say that if a single biologist's papers are proven to be wrong, that puts the whole of evolution into doubt.

this sort of "magic bullet" thinking, where someone believes that they can break an entire scientific field across their knee through the refutation of a single paper, is typical of denialists, be they evolution deniers, global warming deniers, or vaccination deniers.


  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Posts 3,415
Points 56,650
filc replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:09 PM

I got it thanks.

How can we be sure that beyond a shadow of a doubt this is no hoax? I have a long list of stubborn minded friends who need to read through this.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,592
Points 63,685
Sieben replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:10 PM

Thanks for the post Le Master.

I don't have time to go through it at the moment, but post any delicious snippets you find. From the looks of it, all the data is pretty inaccessible.

Banned
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Posts 3,415
Points 56,650
filc replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:11 PM

Le Master:

The Statists don't care. I've already seen hundreds of comments like the following:

Random Statist:

so given that this may (or may not) invalidate a handful of scientific papers produced by a specific team, why is this relevant on the larger scale, given that modern climate science does not rely on any single paper? there are literally thousands of papers on the topic of global warming, and they're all pretty much in agreement. if a couple of them are removed that doesn't change a whole lot; you might as well say that if a single biologist's papers are proven to be wrong, that puts the whole of evolution into doubt.

this sort of "magic bullet" thinking, where someone believes that they can break an entire scientific field across their knee through the refutation of a single paper, is typical of denialists, be they evolution deniers, global warming deniers, or vaccination deniers.


I guess we can expect this. Still it proves that some scientists, in their zeal, stop doing science and started doing religion. It also no doubt questions the legitimacy of other papers as well. I also hate t hat they keep saying everyone is in agreed "unison". If everyone was in agreement there would be nothing to discuss. 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 300
Points 5,325

filc:

I got it thanks.

How can we be sure that beyond a shadow of a doubt this is no hoax? I have a long list of stubborn minded friends who need to read through this.

See the original link... it has been (generally) confirmed by a magazine.  

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 263
Points 5,075
Moderator
Le Master replied on Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:17 PM

Check out the PDF in the documents folder. It's a five-page document titled The Rules of the Game. It seems to be like a primer for propagating the AGW message to the average subject of the UK. The document suggests that it is a precis of a longer document housed at the Web site of the UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 300
Points 5,325

Random Statist:

so given that this may (or may not) invalidate a handful of scientific papers produced by a specific team, why is this relevant on the larger scale, given that modern climate science does not rely on any single paper? there are literally thousands of papers on the topic of global warming, and they're all pretty much in agreement. if a couple of them are removed that doesn't change a whole lot; you might as well say that if a single biologist's papers are proven to be wrong, that puts the whole of evolution into doubt.

this sort of "magic bullet" thinking, where someone believes that they can break an entire scientific field across their knee through the refutation of a single paper, is typical of denialists, be they evolution deniers, global warming deniers, or vaccination deniers.

Here's the thing - it clearly shows that there is a desperate desire among alarmist scientists for global warming/climate change to be manmade, significant, and force government intervention.  It also shows that dissenters are blackballed from mainstream journals, websites, and peer review processes.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,914
Points 70,630

the link I provided has numerous articles from various news sources complied together on this topic.  also some of the very emails are given.  Here's a quote from one of the people that had his emails hacked.  yes this is real:

"Professor Michael Mann, director of Pennsylvania State University’s Earth System Science Centre and a regular contributor to the popular climate science blog Real Climate, features in many of the email exchanges. He said: “I’m not going to comment on the content of illegally obtained emails. However, I will say this: both their theft and, I believe, any reproduction of the emails that were obtained on public websites, etc, constitutes serious criminal activity. I’m hoping the perpetrators and their facilitators will be tracked down and prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows.”"

"Do not put out the fire of the spirit." 1The 5:19
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 318
Points 4,560
Wanderer replied on Sat, Nov 21 2009 12:40 AM

Jesus fucking christ, imagine all the wasted scientific research spent on this bullshit...

Periodically the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.

Thomas Jefferson

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,129
Points 16,635
Giant_Joe replied on Sat, Nov 21 2009 12:44 AM

Wanderer:

Jesus fucking christ, imagine all the wasted scientific research spent on this bullshit...

Careful with your language. It wasn't "scientific".

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 150 Contributor
Male
Posts 767
Points 11,240
Hard Rain replied on Sat, Nov 21 2009 12:48 AM

Wanderer:

Jesus fucking christ, imagine all the wasted scientific research spent on this bullshit...

Nah, just think of it as three decades of "government stimulus" Wink

 

"I don't believe in ghosts, sermons, or stories about money" - Rooster Cogburn, True Grit.
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,940
Points 49,115
Conza88 replied on Sat, Nov 21 2009 1:16 AM

Giant_Joe:

Wanderer:

Jesus fucking christ, imagine all the wasted scientific research spent on this bullshit...

Careful with your language. It wasn't "scientific".

Hahah Big Smile Yes

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,850
Points 85,810

I can hear the alarmists now

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 107
Points 2,185
teuch replied on Sat, Nov 21 2009 4:50 AM

Just in time for Copenhagen..

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 200 Contributor
Male
Posts 370
Points 8,785

Giant_Joe:

Thank you. I'll do my part to help preserve the evidence and spread it.

I read many of the e-mails and there isn't much 'evidence' in it. Go figure. Got me all hyped up for nothing. =[

This is apparently a Man Talk Forum:  No Women Allowed!

Telpeurion's Disliked Person of the Week: David Kramer

  • | Post Points: 35
Page 1 of 2 (65 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS