As of January 1, 2010, we are changing our name to "Coordination Problem". This name change is symbolic as well as substantive. The term "Austrian economics" has become as much a hindrance to the advancement of thought as a convenient shorthand to signal certain methodological and analytical presumptions. We started this blog with a clear purpose to emphasize ongoing research in the scientific literature, and developments in higher education as related to economics and political economy. As a group we are committed to methodological individualism, market process theory, institutional analysis, and spontaneous order theorizing. And while we do not shy away from policy discussions, we do not identify with any political party or specific political movement.
Of all the GMU crowd, Boetkke has show there is no limit to biting the hand that feeds you. Speaking of hand biting, somewhere... out there.. Giles Stratton is having an epiphany.
So, basically, "we don't want to be marginalized as crazies, so we're going to pretend we're somebody we're not."
Well, as you can see, they're trying.
Capital Pumper:Speaking of hand biting, somewhere... out there.. Giles Stratton is having an epiphany.
Really? You sure?
What are they not?
And what was part one?
Why does this constitute a new part of 'the libertarian wars'?
They are just changing the name of the blog to something less controversial and more substantial. End of story.
Alhough I do pity it, I do understand where it's coming from.
The state is not the enemy. The idea of the state is.
There's a news story in the LA Times where a Cato guy and George Selgin denounce Paul for going "too far" in his anti-Fed views. Title is "Ron Paul's ideas no longer fringe".
Capital Pumper: As of January 1, 2010, we are changing our name to "Coordination Problem". This name change is symbolic as well as substantive. The term "Austrian economics" has become as much a hindrance to the advancement of thought as a convenient shorthand to signal certain methodological and analytical presumptions. We started this blog with a clear purpose to emphasize ongoing research in the scientific literature, and developments in higher education as related to economics and political economy. As a group we are committed to methodological individualism, market process theory, institutional analysis, and spontaneous order theorizing. And while we do not shy away from policy discussions, we do not identify with any political party or specific political movement. Of all the GMU crowd, Boetkke has show there is no limit to biting the hand that feeds you. Speaking of hand biting, somewhere... out there.. Giles Stratton is having an epiphany.
I'm glad you got that jab at giles at the end, otherwise some people might view this post as a misnomer to the "libertarian wars" & view it as largely pointless, aside from just making noise about someone disagreeing with an etymological preference, or what is an increasing occurrence of "arguing in the semantics abyss" (lulz, for short). I don't see why trying to come up with a more specific name for their blog, to reflect a change in focus or preference, is bad, or "biting the hand that feeds you". They disagree with the term "Austrian Economics"; no surprise that the Austrian Econ crowd throws a light hissy fit & calls them "childish" from the safety of their blogs. Besides, I thought The Chicago School was more than enough fuel for this type of disdain? If anyone were to be called "ex-Austrian Econ", wouldn't it be them? Oddly enough, I can still see the Chicago School being referred to as a 'school', whereas I can easily see everyone referring to Boetkke et.all as the "ex-Asutrian Econs who got a little confused & wanted to change their name to be Absolutely Fabulous in the press." instead of "oh, they made 'x' - school, diverging & disagreeing a bit with another school of thought, as such as is the nature of developing any sort of theory or intellectual thoughts that has happened plenty of times before". The amount of arrogance is subtle but revealing. I find it surprising that no one is simply just shrugging their shoulders & treating this as merely another market process in advancing economics (instead, a mild betrayal, lol), whether it's purely Austrian Econ or derived from Austrian Econ, & that such market processes might be worthwhile to pursue if people are trying different things, rather than just the same thing over & over (not saying that is occurring with Austrian Econ, but you can only go so far with posting Youtube videos & getting all the comments in the world, internet based fund-raising, & 5 to 9 min spots on MyPundit TV). TL;DR: I think a lot of people are being hipsters in rejecting them. I will continue to read Coordination Problem, but also out of spite, if this is case.
"Look at me, I'm quoting another user to show how wrong I think they are, out of arrogance of my own position. Wait, this is my own quote, oh shi-" ~ Nitroadict
They are right in their decision, and I do not know what the fuss is about. Honestly, stop trying to create a war where none is intended.
Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.
- Edmund Burke
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
I'm not surprised, Boettke has other plans in mind. Did you watch his debate with Caplan? He just kept saying that Caplan is an Austrian, when he most definitely isn't. Either way, the Austrian school is what it is not matter what certain individual's say.
"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."
Nitroadict:I'm glad you got that jab at giles at the end, otherwise some people might view this post as a misnomer to the "libertarian wars" & view it as largely pointless, aside from just making noise about someone disagreeing with an etymological preference, or what is an increasing occurrence of "arguing in the semantics abyss" (lulz, for short).
I assure you, your attribution of nonexistent, diversionary machination to me was not the intention of my post
Nitroadict: I don't see why trying to come up with a more specific name for their blog, to reflect a change in focus or preference, is bad, or "biting the hand that feeds you".
I don't see why trying to come up with a more specific name for their blog, to reflect a change in focus or preference, is bad, or "biting the hand that feeds you".
Well, I cannot be held responsible for a claim that I never made. A strawman on the other hand...
Nitroadict: They disagree with the term "Austrian Economics"; no surprise that the Austrian Econ crowd throws a light hissy fit & calls them "childish" from the safety of their blogs.
They disagree with the term "Austrian Economics"; no surprise that the Austrian Econ crowd throws a light hissy fit & calls them "childish" from the safety of their blogs.
You spin me right round, baby right round like a record, baby right round round round.
Nitroadict: I find it surprising that no one is simply just shrugging their shoulders & treating this as merely another market process in advancing economics
I find it surprising that no one is simply just shrugging their shoulders & treating this as merely another market process in advancing economics
We're just holding off the party until our competitors undergo liquidation.
Esuric: I'm not surprised, Boettke has other plans in mind. Did you watch his debate with Caplan? He just kept saying that Caplan is an Austrian, when he most definitely isn't.
I'm not surprised, Boettke has other plans in mind. Did you watch his debate with Caplan? He just kept saying that Caplan is an Austrian, when he most definitely isn't.
I watched a bit of video, but don't have a coherent memory of it. Were there any other highlights in that debate?
Esuric: Either way, the Austrian school is what it is not matter what certain individual's say.
Either way, the Austrian school is what it is not matter what certain individual's say.
Agreed, and I'll add that it's not defined by who it appeals to.
Capital Pumper:I watched a bit of video, but don't have a coherent memory of it. Were there any other highlights in that debate?
I don't think so.
Laughing Man:
Well played sir.
Fact: I was inspired to write a rendition of God of War 2
God of Coordination 2: Chains of Kochtopus
*Boettke stands atop of Mount Kochtopus with a megaphone in hand"
Boettke: We're not one of you guys! (chorus x 10)
The Layman Libertarian: Why? Why have you betrayed me?
Boettke: It is you who has betrayed me! Am I to stand idly by while Kochtopus is threatened? Your hands are already stained by the blood of a god. I will not let Hayek's fate be my own.
The Layman Libertarian: The GMU crowd is petty and pathetic, and your rule is weak
Boettke: I grow tired of this insolence. I am the tentacle of the Kochtopus! And it is my way that is the way of the Austrians. You must bow to forever serve me.
The Layman Libertarian: I serve Liberty!
Boettke: Then you leave me no choice!
*Peter Boetkke readies the Blade of Kochtopus*
Boettke: Submit!
The Layman Libertarian: I would rather die!
*Boettke heaves a sigh*
Boettke: It did not have to be this way my son. This path is of your choosing.
The Layman Libertarian: A choice from the GMU crowd is as useless as the GMU crowd themselves.
Boettke: Even as you draw your last care you continue to defy me! The term "Austrian economics" will now suffer because of your sacrilege.... You will never be able to advance the tradition of the Austrian school within the scholarship of esoteric academic circles. The cycle en.......
*The Layman Libertarian loses interest in Boettke's rant, and continues with his pilgrimage to Auburn*
Boettke: I BANISH MYSELF TO THE DEPTHS OF OBSCURITY! HAAAARRRGGH!!!
*Boettke strikes Google with the Blade of Kochtopus*
*The blow to the infamous search engine fails to undo the "damage" of the Layman Libertarian, and in the process causes Boettke's blog to be renamed to Coordination Problem*
Capital Pumper: Fact: I was inspired to write a rendition of God of War 2 God of Coordination 2: Chains of Kochtopus *Boettke stands atop of Mount Kochtopus with a megaphone in hand" Boettke: We're not one of you guys! (chorus x 10) The Layman Libertarian: Why? Why have you betrayed me? Boettke: It is you have betrayed me! Am I to stand idly by while Kochtopus is threatened? Your hands are already stained by the blood of a god. I will not let Hayek's fate be my own. The Layman Libertarian: The GMU crowd is petty and pathetic, and your rule is weak Boettke: I grow tired of this insolence. I am the tentacle of the Kochtopus! And it is my way that is the way of the Austrians. You must bow to forever serve me The Layman Libertarian: I serve Liberty! Boettke: Then you leave me no choice! *Peter Boetkke readies the Blade of Kochtopus* Boettke: Submit! Layman Libertarian: I would rather die! *Boettke heaves a sigh* Boettke: It did not have to be this way my son. This path is of your choosing. The Layman Libertarian: A choice from the GMU crowd is as useless as GMU crowd themselves. Boettke: Even as you draw your last care you continue to defy me! The term "Austrian economics" will now suffer because of your sacrilege.... You will never be able to advance the tradition of the Austrian school within the scholarship of esoteric academic circles. The cycle en....... *The Layman Libertarian loses interest in Boettke's rant, and continues with his pilgrimage to Auburn* Boettke: I BANISH MYSELF TO THE DEPTHS OF OBSCURITY! HAAAARRRGGH!!! *Boettke strikes Google with the Blade of Kochtopus* *The blow to the fails to undo the "damage" of the Layman Libertarian, and in the process causes Boettke's blog to be renamed to Coordination Problem*
Boettke: It is you have betrayed me! Am I to stand idly by while Kochtopus is threatened? Your hands are already stained by the blood of a god. I will not let Hayek's fate be my own.
Boettke: I grow tired of this insolence. I am the tentacle of the Kochtopus! And it is my way that is the way of the Austrians. You must bow to forever serve me
Layman Libertarian: I would rather die!
The Layman Libertarian: A choice from the GMU crowd is as useless as GMU crowd themselves.
*The blow to the fails to undo the "damage" of the Layman Libertarian, and in the process causes Boettke's blog to be renamed to Coordination Problem*
Absolutely believable...except for the knife part. That is just out of character.
Menger regretted the term Austrian. MIses did too. Hayek was the same. Salerno has written many times that it would be better if it didn't exist. Pete has variously said the same thing. It is just a word and it means no more or less than it conveys in communication. All words are limited but as things go, the term Austrian is serviceable. My own guess, and this is Salerno's too, is that we are stuck with it, and that's fine. It has a long history and isn't going anywhere. This choice by Pete is a strategic one - based entirely on academic considerations - and should be evaluated as such. My guess is that he will return to the term Austrian in a few years.
I see no more significance to it than this.
Publisher, Laissez-Faire Books
Sukrit Sabhlok: There's a news story in the LA Times where a Cato guy and George Selgin denounce Paul for going "too far" in his anti-Fed views. Title is "Ron Paul's ideas no longer fringe".
http://austrianeconomists.typepad.com/weblog/2009/08/george-selgin-on-the-audit-of-the-fed-and-why-we-could-even-do-without-the-fed.html
Maybe we should change to Swiss Economics because it sounds more peaceful :D
Capital Pumper: God of Coordination 2: Chains of Kochtopus *Boettke stands atop of Mount Kochtopus with a megaphone in hand" Boettke: We're not one of you guys! (chorus x 10) The Layman Libertarian: Why? Why have you betrayed me? Boettke: It is you who has betrayed me! Am I to stand idly by while Kochtopus is threatened? Your hands are already stained by the blood of a god. I will not let Hayek's fate be my own. The Layman Libertarian: The GMU crowd is petty and pathetic, and your rule is weak Boettke: I grow tired of this insolence. I am the tentacle of the Kochtopus! And it is my way that is the way of the Austrians. You must bow to forever serve me. The Layman Libertarian: I serve Liberty! Boettke: Then you leave me no choice! *Peter Boetkke readies the Blade of Kochtopus* Boettke: Submit! The Layman Libertarian: I would rather die! *Boettke heaves a sigh* Boettke: It did not have to be this way my son. This path is of your choosing. The Layman Libertarian: A choice from the GMU crowd is as useless as the GMU crowd themselves. Boettke: Even as you draw your last care you continue to defy me! The term "Austrian economics" will now suffer because of your sacrilege.... You will never be able to advance the tradition of the Austrian school within the scholarship of esoteric academic circles. The cycle en....... *The Layman Libertarian loses interest in Boettke's rant, and continues with his pilgrimage to Auburn* Boettke: I BANISH MYSELF TO THE DEPTHS OF OBSCURITY! HAAAARRRGGH!!! *Boettke strikes Google with the Blade of Kochtopus* *The blow to the infamous search engine fails to undo the "damage" of the Layman Libertarian, and in the process causes Boettke's blog to be renamed to Coordination Problem*
Is there any point to this kind of defamation? This is exactly what Boettke is trying to avoid, the connotation that Austrian economics is little more than libertarian-apologetics; instead, he is doing what the GMU economics department has been doing since at least the 70s: good economic scholarship in the tradition of Menger, Mises, Hayek, and Kirzner. You are doing quite a good job in proving Boettke's point.
Esuric:I'm not surprised, Boettke has other plans in mind. Did you watch his debate with Caplan? He just kept saying that Caplan is an Austrian, when he most definitely isn't. Either way, the Austrian school is what it is not matter what certain individual's say.
I doubt that you know Caplan's economics as well as Boettke does so I will trust his judgment over your own.
laminustacitus:Is there any point to this kind of defamation? This is exactly what Boettke is trying to avoid, the connotation that Austrian economics is little more than libertarian-apologetics; instead, he is doing what the GMU economics department has been doing since at least the 70s: good economic scholarship in the tradition of Menger, Mises, Hayek, and Kirzner. You are doing quite a good job in proving Boettke's point.
Relax, he is just having a bit of fun.
Laughing Man: laminustacitus:Is there any point to this kind of defamation? This is exactly what Boettke is trying to avoid, the connotation that Austrian economics is little more than libertarian-apologetics; instead, he is doing what the GMU economics department has been doing since at least the 70s: good economic scholarship in the tradition of Menger, Mises, Hayek, and Kirzner. You are doing quite a good job in proving Boettke's point. Relax, he is just having a bit of fun.
Defamation is defamation. If anybody treated the LvMI, or any of its fellows like that on this forum would find their post deleted, and probably a ban after that so I don't see why it is acceptable to treat other individuals, and organizations in such a fashion here.
laminustacitus:Defamation is defamation. If anybody treated the LvMI, or any of its fellows like that on this forum would find their post deleted, and probably a ban after that so I don't see why it is acceptable to treat other individuals, and organizations in such a fashion here.
Facetious playwrights with fictitious dialog are not serious threats to reputation. If you are vexed by this, ok you obviously can have emotions about this but you are exacerbating the situation by blowing it out of portion. Just treat this thread as a useless prattling of jokes and move onto the next one.
laminustacitus:I doubt that you know Caplan's economics as well as Boettke does so I will trust his judgment over your own.
He said that an artificial reduction in the market rate of interest would be noticed by market actors, and they would deal with it. I mean, no Austrian could understand or take such confusion seriously. Rational expectations is entirely absurd.
All they are doing is changing the name of their blog. Some war.
laminustacitus: I doubt that you know Caplan's economics as well as Boettke does so I will trust his judgment over your own.
"[A]rgument" from authority "is a bad way to argue."
If I wrote it more than a few weeks ago, I probably hate it by now.
Angurse: All they are doing is changing the name of their blog. Some war.
I. Ryan: laminustacitus: I doubt that you know Caplan's economics as well as Boettke does so I will trust his judgment over your own. "[A]rgument" from authority "is a bad way to argue."
Seemed perfectly fine to me.
I wrote this for the Mises Blog: Value-Free Economics and Political Advocacy
Also, Capital Pumper, I hope you don't mind: I took out the "libertarian wars" part in the title of this thread.
J. Grayson Lilburne: I wrote this for the Mises Blog: Value-Free Economics and Political Advocacy Also, Capital Pumper, I hope you don't mind: I took out the "libertarian wars" part in the title of this thread.
Your blog post actually reminded me of an interesting argument I had with an online acquitance. It seems that in economics when you are arguing for a specific economic policy you are inevitably also arguing for a political policy. It seems to me that Milton Friedman's belief that politics and economics are linked (or, even one in the same, in many ways) holds true.
I don't if anybody reads Bradford DeLong's blog, but he did pick up on the news. He surely compressed what he thought was most important:
As of January 1, 2010, we are changing our name to "Coordination Problem".... The term "Austrian economics" has become as much a hindrance.... e have been tracking the use of the term Austrian economics.... The results do not fit our intention. Google alert, for example, inevitably points to financial advice or libertarian politics, rarely to the research paradigm of F. A. Hayek, never to the scholarship of Israel Kirzner. Mises is often mentioned, but Mises the ideological symbol.... These trends are not recent, but have been constant throughout our respective careers. We have always been among those who attempted to offer resistance to this use of the term. It has become evident to us that our efforts have been futile. Rather than resist the pure ideological identification, we are choosing to devote our efforts elsewhere. The name Austrian economics has been lost as a focal point for a tradition of economic scholarship, and is now a focal point for something else. We have to let it go...
I hate to read too much into it, but I can't help but feel that DeLong is trying to make a point.
Lew Rockwell blogged my post (and called me "stimulating"!).
J. Grayson Lilburne:Lew Rockwell blogged my post (and called me "stimulating"!).
lucky
Laughing Man:Just treat this thread as a useless prattling of jokes and move onto the next one.
A thread like this about the LvMI would be locked immediately, my point about the inappropriateness of threads like this here is proved by that alone, and a simple application of not being a hypocrite.
Esuric: laminustacitus:I doubt that you know Caplan's economics as well as Boettke does so I will trust his judgment over your own. He said that an artificial reduction in the market rate of interest would be noticed by market actors, and they would deal with it. I mean, no Austrian could understand or take such confusion seriously. Rational expectations is entirely absurd.
I wonder, Esuric, how much of Caplan's material have you read?
^Capital Pumper, brilliant, that just made my day.
Austrian economics is just a label, I see him remaining libertarian as more important. There are always differences between similar minded groups and individuals, and people who are uncomfortable with labels always exist.
Freedom has always been the only route to progress.
laminustacitus:A thread like this about the LvMI would be locked immediately
J. Grayson Lilburne: Lew Rockwell blogged my post (and called me "stimulating"!).
I must admit that posts like those only serve to verify Boettke's point about the label "Austrian". Plus, he conveniently ignores post like this from the Coordination Problem that nullify his point. Things like this are the reason why I no longer frequent LewRockwell.com.
Knight_of_BAAWA: Laughing Man:Just treat this thread as a useless prattling of jokes and move onto the next one. laminustacitus:A thread like this about the LvMI would be locked immediatelySo what?
It shows that there is a hypocrisy about how one can treat other organizations: you can't say some things about the LvMI, but feel free to say those things about other organizations.
laminustacitus: Laughing Man:Just treat this thread as a useless prattling of jokes and move onto the next one. A thread like this about the LvMI would be locked immediately, my point about the inappropriateness of threads like this here is proved by that alone, and a simple application of not being a hypocrite.
If LvMI official position was to trick people into thinking that something is not what it is, there would be much worse problems than mere forum administration.
Knight_of_BAAWA:So what?
laminustacitus:It shows that there is a hypocrisy about how one can treat other organizations
laminustacitus:I wonder, Esuric, how much of Caplan's material have you read?
After he said that I lost all interest.