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Roadblocks to Building Private Roads?

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limitgov Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010 7:54 AM

What roadblocks are there to organizations and people building private roads?

pun intended

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The fact that the competition (the state) can procure virtually unlimited funding and land at gunpoint.

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limitgov replied on Fri, Dec 17 2010 8:04 AM

lets say there's a road that someone or some organization wants built...and the state is not going to do it...

what type of GOVERMENT (IF ANY) roadblocks are there for that person/organization?

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Stranger replied on Fri, Dec 17 2010 8:07 AM

Mostly that roads are paid out of taxes and owned collectively.

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Permits, permits, permits!

Also building codes, and impact assesments, etc.

Once you get into actually trying to build anything, or state a buisness, the amount of paperwork that has to be done is absolutely staggering.  Someone I know recently tried to rebuild his garage.  They approved a permit to demolish the structure, then harassed him when he was rebuilding it.  It sat half-built for 4 months while they wrangled it out.  Then he needed MORE permits to simply re-stucco the exterior of his house.

Now imagine trying to build a large engineered structure like a highway or bridge.  Oh and don't forget that the designing engineers have to have Professional Engineer licenses!

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Agamentus replied on Fri, Dec 17 2010 8:28 AM

Also keep in mind the sheer costs to construct roads, too. They're prohibitively expensive and would require large companies / cooperatives to fund. I can see private highways being viable, but it seems to become tricky when you consider residential road systems. If a new homeowner needs to consider the costs of extending the road and helping support the roadways that go from his house to the rest of civilization, it makes grabbing an apartment in a central downtown location much more appealing.

Add to that all of the seasonal maintenance costs if you're a northerner. Some places here in New York State have already blown through much of their plowing / salting budget. I saw on the local news that it costs $8,000 /mile to maintain a road under normal winter conditions (lots of variable there, but still, it's pricy).

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Autolykos replied on Fri, Dec 17 2010 9:42 AM

LogisticEarth:
Permits, permits, permits!

Also building codes, and impact assesments, etc.

Once you get into actually trying to build anything, or state a buisness, the amount of paperwork that has to be done is absolutely staggering.  Someone I know recently tried to rebuild his garage.  They approved a permit to demolish the structure, then harassed him when he was rebuilding it.  It sat half-built for 4 months while they wrangled it out.  Then he needed MORE permits to simply re-stucco the exterior of his house.

Now imagine trying to build a large engineered structure like a highway or bridge.  Oh and don't forget that the designing engineers have to have Professional Engineer licenses!

This.  You beat me to it.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

Agamentus:
Also keep in mind the sheer costs to construct roads, too. They're prohibitively expensive and would require large companies / cooperatives to fund.

So what makes them so expensive?  I asked Clayton this in another thread, but he never answered me.

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Agamentus replied on Fri, Dec 17 2010 10:31 AM

So what makes them so expensive?

Here's a PDF from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, "Cost Estimating Guide for Road Construction:" http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/projects/costguide/Cost_Estimating_Guide_for_Road_Construction_2009.pdf

It starts with some engineering estimates and government regulations for wage-rate adjustments. It then goes into mobilizing for the project, surveying, clearing and laying earthwork, paving, constructing any bridges, enabling proper drainage and "incidental construction," and then all of the equipment and labor you'll need in the process. I don't have the time to read this through in any detail, so I'm not sure how much of the costs are mandated and how much are required to build a quality road, but it certainly looks quite complicated. Factor in the rapidly increasing costs of common paving materials like asphalt, which has jumped to $400 / ton (gravel by comparison is $20 / ton), and you have an expensive project on your hands.

If anyone knows anything about road construction, feel free to provide a few additional details.

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Autolykos replied on Fri, Dec 17 2010 2:11 PM

I haven't read that guide yet, but it sounds like much (if not a lot) of the high costs of road construction in the US today are due to various government regulations.  Do you agree?  Why or why not?

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Do you happen to know how much it costs to maintain roads/highways in the United States per year? I'd like to see what that number is divided by 330 million people to see the cost per person. Just curious.

I feel like it would be so little that everyone would voluntarily give the money to their community for mutually-owned roads.

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  • Do you happen to know how much it costs to maintain roads/highways in the United States per year? I'd like to see what that number is divided by 330 million people to see the cost per person. Just curious.

The 2010 Federal DOT budget is about $70 billion.  Figure with the State budgets that's at least double, so you're in the $150 Billion/year range at least, which comes out to around $500/year per citizen.  per road user it would be much more as not everyone drives.  But that's under the current system where you often have roads repaved simply because there's extra money left in the annual budget.

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