So in my AP US gov class (yes, I'm in high school) we had a debate on universal health care. It was like 7 (con) v. 11 (pro).
I pretty much single handedly owned the rest of the class, though my team mates pitched in and did well also. My biggest problem was that anyone who was being too dominant had to step down, so I wasn't able to refute all of my opponent's arguments.
In any case, here the basic outline of my case:
i. In Italy: average of 70 days for a mammorgram, 74 days for an endoscopy, and 23 days for a sonogram.
ii. In Spain: average of 65 days to see a specialist (Canary Islands 140 days, Galacia 81 days). Average of 71 day wait to see a gynecologist and 81 day wait to see a neurologist. The mean waiting time for a prostectomy is 62 days, for hip replacement surgery it is 123 days. There is no rehabilitation for surgery patients.
iii. Norway: hip replacement surgery - four months prostectomy – three months hysterectomy – two months…. Approx. 23% of all patients referred for hospital admission have to wait longer than three months for admission. Approx. 280,000 Norwegians are waiting for care on any given day out of a population of 4.6 million.
iv. Portugal: at least 25% of emergency room patients do not need immediate treatment. Currently, more than 150,000 Portuguese are on waiting lists for surgery, out of a population of just 10.6 million.
v. Greece: hospitals suffer from staff shortages, less than half of authorized medical positions are actually filled. Greece needs and estimated 5,000 general practitioners to meet demand while there are only about 600 practicing ones. Six month wait for an outpatient appointment, wait for either the hypertension or neurology departments is 150 days.
vi. Netherlands: three month wait for hip replacement and two month wait for prostectomy and hysterectomy.
vii. UK: 750,000 Britons waiting for admission to hospitals. Cancer patients can wait as long as eight months for treatment. Roughly 40% of cancer patients never get to see an oncology specialist. Only 30 to 50% of patients are treated within 18 weeks. For trauma and orthopedics patients, the figure is only 20%. Overall, more than half of British patients wait more than 18 weeks for care.
viii. Canada: more than 800,000 Canadians waiting for treatment at any given time. Treatment time averaged 17.7 weeks (not including waiting time). At least 50 patients in Ontario alone have died while on a waiting list for cardiac catheterization. “Thirty-three percent of Canadians who say they have an unmet medical need reported being in pain that limits their daily activities.” Canadian Supreme Court Chief Justice: “patients die while on the waiting list.”
Here are my sources:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/docshortage2.html
http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/we-can-have-afford-hc.html
Hope this can help anyone here who is currently debating about universal health care with socialists-in-wolf's-clothing.
Political Atheists Blog
Nicely done! It's encouraging to see someone your age defending the principles of liberty. Keep up the good work!
Bumped because I regret not being a libertarian in HS for this very same reason, and also for the uses of "pwned" and "nooblets", which caused me much "lolz".
"Look at me, I'm quoting another user to show how wrong I think they are, out of arrogance of my own position. Wait, this is my own quote, oh shi-" ~ Nitroadict
Thank you for the lolz.
I was the lone voice for Misesian liberalism in my history classes as well. Though I did take one AP course, I never took anymore. In fact, I did terribly throughout high school.
I am glad there are people who can actually tolerate the public school system in it's current and forever status. Those of us who are not willing to commit to the stupid tasks and busy work are left to die near the bottom of the pile; and subsequently fail to progress as far in academia as the state's 4.0 GPA stooges - With some exceptions.
I just got out of HS and am going to have to take General Education and all the wonderful little obstacles in community college because of my practical mistakes (though certainly not philosophical mistakes!).
Best of luck to you,
Telpeurion
This is apparently a Man Talk Forum: No Women Allowed!
Telpeurion's Disliked Person of the Week: David Kramer
Haha, thanks guys.
I'm not the best student at all, but I decided to actually prepare for a debate once, as I didn't prepare for a single debate in my debate class last semester.
I really can't wait until I get out of the public school system and am able to study what I want (economics and philosophy).
krazy kaju: Haha, thanks guys. I'm not the best student at all, but I decided to actually prepare for a debate once, as I didn't prepare for a single debate in my debate class last semester. I really can't wait until I get out of the public school system and am able to study what I want (economics and philosophy).
C's, D's and F's were my forte. You?
Telpeurion: C's, D's and F's were my forte. You?
My parents are quite strict, so I manage to get As, Bs, and Cs. I've only had one D in school so far and I don't plan on getting another one. My cumulative core GPA is like a 3.2 or something and my ACT score was a 26 (with virtually no studying). I've been trying to do better in the hopes going to George Mason.
My grades might be better than yours were, but I still hate school (or at least being forced to learn things I don't care for at all).
Hahaha, that is great man.
Remember that you aren't stuck at a college. If you don't get into George Mason, study hard your first semester and reapply. Keep trying until you get accepted.
Good luck!
Thanks. I was thinking about going to a slightly worse university where my mom teaches, since I know for sure I could get in there, I'd have like half off on the tuition, and the education there isn't too bad (I'd say it's third after UM and MSU here in Michigan).
I could go there for two years and then switch to GMU or maybe go to GMU for grad school (b/c of their Austrian program). Dunno.
I didn't do well in high school either, and frankly didn't need to. I didn't learn a damn thing of any importance to me whatsoever between 4th grade and college.
But when we had our mandatory senior class debate, I got stuck on the pro-legalization of marijuana side. That opened the door to libertarianism for me, and I latched right on to it.
I kicked butt.
Pro Christo et Libertate integre!
Telpeurion:Those of us who are not willing to commit to the stupid tasks and busy work are left to die near the bottom of the pile; and subsequently fail to progress as far in academia as the state's 4.0 GPA stooges - With some exceptions.
Take heart, dude. I was the same way...unchallenged and bored outta my skull during HS. I graduated barely in the top half of my class, nearly failed out of my first semester in college, and have no degree. Now I'm a database administrator, making a six-figure salary. I'm not particularly talented or lucky...just found something I enjoyed doing and learned all I could while doing it.
Good job. Not to change the subject, but it kinda reminds me of when I showed my history teacher a Lewrockwell.com article about Lincoln's violation of habeus corpus.
When you say the UK goes in a £700 yearly deficit surely you meant to say more than that?
-Jon
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
shazam: Good job. Not to change the subject, but it kinda reminds me of when I showed my history teacher a Lewrockwell.com article about Lincoln's violation of habeus corpus.
You should have just used one sentence: "my position, unlike that of my opponent, involves no theft or violence or threats of imprisonment."
In my history class(also highschool) we were talking about the effects of the Idustrial revolution and I got into an argument over whether or not the poor were better off in the industrial revolution.
her- positive effects of industrial revolution?
me- people had more money
her- be more specific
me- everyone had more money
her- everyone?
me- yes, even the poor because they judged the factory jobs to be more beneficial to the old farm jobs
her- maybe they got kicked off the farm and had no choice?
me- then at least they would have an alternative rather than starving
later on.....
her-if the population increased too much then there wouldn't be any jobs left for the new people
me- the new people would create a new demand for products and thus more jobs
her- (she changed her mind and agreed with me, forgot how she said it though)
She also had various comments about how the minimum wage would make the poor better off, how monopolies occur in an unregulated economy, and how terrible child labor is. I didn't have a chance to refute these.
"The plans differ; the planners are all alike"
-Bastiat