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Capitalism is just as bad as Statism.

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kylio27 posted on Tue, Sep 4 2012 7:27 PM

 

What we need are institutions that are neither statist nor capitalist. Both of these involve hierarchy, subordination, and the centralization of power and decision-making authority in the hands of a small few; which is then wielded against the many.

We need institutions that are entirely 1) voluntary, 2) cooperative, and 3) participatory

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Suggested by ThatOldGuy
We need institutions that are entirely 1) voluntary, 2) cooperative, and 3) participatory
you just described markets.
Keep the faith, Strannix. -Casey Ryback, Under Siege (Steven Seagal)
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It's about how the market works. Capitalism is exploitation of people, in the same way statism is. 

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How's that? Anyway, I said "markets" which meet your criteria. Please explain how voluntary, cooperative, participatory markets fail to satisfy the terms of your assertion.
Keep the faith, Strannix. -Casey Ryback, Under Siege (Steven Seagal)
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Answered (Not Verified) cab21 replied on Tue, Sep 4 2012 8:19 PM
Suggested by MaikU

We need institutions that are entirely 1) voluntary, 2) cooperative, and 3) participatory

 

that is capitalism.

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Unless you want to go anarcho-socialist on us, I don't think you've got anything.

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Can we get a thread-merge here? I don't see the point in having to wade through a page full of threads every time this one has a thought.

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Explain how capitalism is exploitative?

Then we will talk.

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org

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Can we get a thread-merge here? I don't see the point in having to wade through a page full of threads every time this one has a thought.

I agree, but in the name of "fairness" or whatnot, we should endure this firestorm of posts.

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You know you're boring when someone can look at the title of the thread and know that it's you before even clicking on it. Same old same old. I'll give you some credit and admit under some circumstances capitalism can be exploitative, instances where capitalism is exploitative, is usually because of some sort of government intervention which made things worse however.

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" I'll give you some credit and admit under some circumstances capitalism can be exploitative, instances where capitalism is exploitative, is usually because of some sort of government intervention which made things worse however."

Absolutely, but where this is the case it is socialism causing the problem. Ownership is control, socialism is state ownership of the means of production, even if EVERYTHING else in the economy were capitalist, and the government decides to intervene , in one tiny aspect it is controlling the means of production, which is the same as ownership, maybe not complete ownership, maybe just one tiny twig in the bundle of property rights, but it is still state ownership of that aspect. 

This is why I hate the term Crony Capitalism, it should be called Corporate Socialism.  It may be proper to call an entirely private cartel crony capitalism, but when it is government bestowing favors, that has nothing to do with capitalism.

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The boss hardly does anything while his workers sweat for him. He makes the highest profit. How is that fair? 

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^^^^

The bosss asked workers if they would like to work.

No one was forced.

Anyways- are you sure the boss does nothing?

He invests, makes decisions, manages the factory, manages salary of his workers?

If you were dirt poor- Would you rather work at a iphone factory, or be dragged into prostitution or becoming a beggar?

Bill gates is rich. That greedy capitalist.

--> Cant you see how many products bill gates brought to the computing sector? Now we can all enjoy games, talk online, etc, etc.

Fuck nike they exploit workers.

--> Cant you see how they provide foot wear for a bunch of americans?

---> Cant you see how those factories provide a wage for the poor person? Would you rather be dragged into prostitution or beggary?

Even if it is less than 8dollars and hour, 3 or 4 dollars is quite a bit in else where.

Also look at my signature.

 

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org

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The boss hardly does anything while his workers sweat for him. He makes the highest profit. How is that fair?

"Yeah! The workers would have been better off if he just kept his accumulated capital to himself for his own consumption instead of adding production to society. And don't get me started on the consumers that would be better off without added production! OWS!!!1!!1"

The only one worth following is the one who leads... not the one who pulls; for it is not the direction that condemns the puller, it is the rope that he holds.

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I'm a little confused - at the beginning of your post you were basically describing anarcho-communism, stating that capitalism and statism is bad, and then at the end...you describe how free-market capitalism is just what we need.

By the way, I don't understand how those greedy bosses you speak of "exploit" their workers, in the words of Marx. The workers aren't slaves, they are getting paid, and I assume that they weren't coerced into taking the job. See this is the thing - Marxism attempts to categorize people who were once part of that proletarian class who have worked hard to produce good stuff into this evil "bourgeoisie," which automatically makes the working class hate the people who were able to rise up through hard work. It's pure gold in the minds of power-hungry wannabe dictators who want an army of angry proletarians on their side to give them absolute power and continue to love them with the dellusion of good conditions.

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