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Conceived in Liberty by Rothbard

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Conza88 posted on Sun, Feb 15 2009 10:40 AM

http://mises.org/journals/aen/aen11_2_1.asp

AEN: What about Conceived in Liberty?

MNR: After the Volcker Fund collapsed, I got another grant from the Lilly Endowment to do a history of the U.S., which I worked on from 1962-66. The original idea was to take the regular facts and put a libertarian assessment on everything. But once I started to work on it, I found many facts had been left out, like tax rebellions. So it got longer and longer. It turned into the five volume Conceived in Liberty, covering the Colonial period to the Constitution. I don't chart this stuff in advance. I don't like to work that way. I go step by step and it keeps getting longer. After Arlington House published volume four, they went out of business. Volume five, on the Constitution, was written in longhand and no one can read my handwriting.

So that's it? Has it ever been translated or decrypted? Tongue Tied That, to me, seems like the most important part! Sad

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Well, it is not lost. It is a huge pile of yellow paper. I have many thoughts about this topic because it comes up quite often. One is that Conceived is MNR's least-read project. There are four massive volumes. They are wonderful. But not many people take them on. Over the years, I've found it interesting that there is so much interest in the unpublished 5th volume but very low interest in the published 4 volumes. I'm not saying that is true in this case, but I offer it as an observation from accumulated evidence.

Another point is that MNR very much wrote in drafts. They were revised and revised and revised again and again. Whatever we came up with out of this--and we are talking about years of work here--it would not be what Murray would have finally approved. We can know this for sure. He would have changed many things. What he would have changed is very difficult to say. So it is right to be a bit squemish about this idea.

FEE has produced several books of Mises's lectures. They are wonderful. I really like them. They sound like Mises to me. And yet you end up reading with some slight doubt that this would have been precisely what he would have approved for print. I'm glad FEE did this, very much so. And yet I'm not sure that one can really say for sure that this is authoritative in every way.

Murray's Conceived 5 notes are far far far less publishable in some form that notes take from Mises's lectures. So I really doubt that anything will ever come of it. Sometimes it is hard to realize and fully adjust to the fact that some things didn't go the way that might have, and not having this 5th volume is just one of those things. Another is that he never completed his History of Thought. For my part, I think it is sometimes good to rejoice in what we do have rather than getting too upset about what we do not have.

Ok, one last example here. For years, a manuscript by MNR on the conservative movement--brilliant and autobiographical--circulated in private, copied hundreds of times. Finally it came out as a book--after years of work on our part. It is called Betrayal of the American Right. I must say that it has not been a smash seller, and perhaps that is our fault, I don't know. But it certainly is my impression that there was more interest in the book before it was printed than after, and this has nothing to do with quality. It is a great book.

I think this has to do with the normal human tendency to desperately want what you can't get to but to be oddly indifferent to what is readily available.

Publisher, Laissez-Faire Books

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It's been done! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duzmFvKGJU0&t=0s&fbclid=IwAR2JwKvGSwCgNLK9DMhhRcvGxTzMJiXPO2mbr7yrc9_93oIagcy5ICtpJ0g :D !
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MacFall replied on Thu, Feb 19 2009 12:23 AM

Sometimes I cry myself to sleep thinking about that.

 

...Ok, not really. But it is a travesty. I think Jeff Tucker would be the one to ask about that... perhaps you could PM him and ask him to respond in this thread?

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In all seriousness... if I could some how learn to read his longhand or handwriting style, so I could translate this:

I would.

Someone out there has got too. This can't be lost... it can't... Indifferent

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Well, it is not lost. It is a huge pile of yellow paper. I have many thoughts about this topic because it comes up quite often. One is that Conceived is MNR's least-read project. There are four massive volumes. They are wonderful. But not many people take them on. Over the years, I've found it interesting that there is so much interest in the unpublished 5th volume but very low interest in the published 4 volumes. I'm not saying that is true in this case, but I offer it as an observation from accumulated evidence.

Another point is that MNR very much wrote in drafts. They were revised and revised and revised again and again. Whatever we came up with out of this--and we are talking about years of work here--it would not be what Murray would have finally approved. We can know this for sure. He would have changed many things. What he would have changed is very difficult to say. So it is right to be a bit squemish about this idea.

FEE has produced several books of Mises's lectures. They are wonderful. I really like them. They sound like Mises to me. And yet you end up reading with some slight doubt that this would have been precisely what he would have approved for print. I'm glad FEE did this, very much so. And yet I'm not sure that one can really say for sure that this is authoritative in every way.

Murray's Conceived 5 notes are far far far less publishable in some form that notes take from Mises's lectures. So I really doubt that anything will ever come of it. Sometimes it is hard to realize and fully adjust to the fact that some things didn't go the way that might have, and not having this 5th volume is just one of those things. Another is that he never completed his History of Thought. For my part, I think it is sometimes good to rejoice in what we do have rather than getting too upset about what we do not have.

Ok, one last example here. For years, a manuscript by MNR on the conservative movement--brilliant and autobiographical--circulated in private, copied hundreds of times. Finally it came out as a book--after years of work on our part. It is called Betrayal of the American Right. I must say that it has not been a smash seller, and perhaps that is our fault, I don't know. But it certainly is my impression that there was more interest in the book before it was printed than after, and this has nothing to do with quality. It is a great book.

I think this has to do with the normal human tendency to desperately want what you can't get to but to be oddly indifferent to what is readily available.

Publisher, Laissez-Faire Books

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If I could afford to buy it at the moment, I'd gladly buy the Conceived in Liberty set.  I started reading vol. 1 but unfortunately had to return it to the library before I got a chance to finish it. Stick out tongue

This reminds me, Mr. Tucker:  Is the Mises store ever going to have Man, Economy, and State with Power and Market (The Scholar's Edition) back in stock?

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Well, that was pretty much my own screw up. In August we had 600 books. I figured we were fine. Then suddenly they were all purchased. We could have reprinted as is. Instead we decided to go with a new edition and that took more time. So as a result, we've been 5 months or so without any MES just at the time when they were most needed.

The good news is that they will be here in a couple of weeks.

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jtucker:

Well, that was pretty much my own screw up. In August we had 600 books. I figured we were fine. Then suddenly they were all purchased. We could have reprinted as is. Instead we decided to go with a new edition and that took more time. So as a result, we've been 5 months or so without any MES just at the time when they were most needed.

The good news is that they will be here in a couple of weeks.

Sweet.  Thanks.

I look forward to the new edition.

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Conza88:

In all seriousness... if I could some how learn to read his longhand or handwriting style, so I could translate this:

I would.

Someone out there has got too. This can't be lost... it can't... Indifferent

Why Mr. Tucker is right to assert what he did about the allure of the 5th volume being mostly contained in its myster, I'm sure if you wanted to first learn Rothbard's longhand and then translate it on your own time over an extended period of time[probably the better part of all your free time for the better part of a decade] at the Mises library, Mr. Tucker would not stop you, would he?  

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That would be great. Actually, I'm thinking that 10 years in those archives are needed to get them all in order.

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sirmonty:

If I could afford to buy it at the moment, I'd gladly buy the Conceived in Liberty set.  I started reading vol. 1 but unfortunately had to return it to the library before I got a chance to finish it. Stick out tongue

I "read" the audio version. >_>

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MacFall:

sirmonty:

If I could afford to buy it at the moment, I'd gladly buy the Conceived in Liberty set.  I started reading vol. 1 but unfortunately had to return it to the library before I got a chance to finish it. Stick out tongue

I "read" the audio version. >_>

Are all volumes on audio?

If so, I'd like to find those.  That way I can "read" them while at work.

Still going to buy the books someday, though.  Something about owning a hardcopy....

 

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jtucker:

Well, it is not lost. It is a huge pile of yellow paper. I have many thoughts about this topic because it comes up quite often. One is that Conceived is MNR's least-read project. There are four massive volumes. They are wonderful. But not many people take them on. Over the years, I've found it interesting that there is so much interest in the unpublished 5th volume but very low interest in the published 4 volumes. I'm not saying that is true in this case, but I offer it as an observation from accumulated evidence.

Another point is that MNR very much wrote in drafts. They were revised and revised and revised again and again. Whatever we came up with out of this--and we are talking about years of work here--it would not be what Murray would have finally approved. We can know this for sure. He would have changed many things. What he would have changed is very difficult to say. So it is right to be a bit squemish about this idea.

FEE has produced several books of Mises's lectures. They are wonderful. I really like them. They sound like Mises to me. And yet you end up reading with some slight doubt that this would have been precisely what he would have approved for print. I'm glad FEE did this, very much so. And yet I'm not sure that one can really say for sure that this is authoritative in every way.

Murray's Conceived 5 notes are far far far less publishable in some form that notes take from Mises's lectures. So I really doubt that anything will ever come of it. Sometimes it is hard to realize and fully adjust to the fact that some things didn't go the way that might have, and not having this 5th volume is just one of those things. Another is that he never completed his History of Thought. For my part, I think it is sometimes good to rejoice in what we do have rather than getting too upset about what we do not have.

Ok, one last example here. For years, a manuscript by MNR on the conservative movement--brilliant and autobiographical--circulated in private, copied hundreds of times. Finally it came out as a book--after years of work on our part. It is called Betrayal of the American Right. I must say that it has not been a smash seller, and perhaps that is our fault, I don't know. But it certainly is my impression that there was more interest in the book before it was printed than after, and this has nothing to do with quality. It is a great book.

I think this has to do with the normal human tendency to desperately want what you can't get to but to be oddly indifferent to what is readily available.

Thanks for the response JT!

I actually think his volume on the Constitution would be the best and most interesting, but maybe that's just personal preference.

All good info about MNR and Mises which I really appreciate.

Your last sentence sums up the situation well... except I love all the Mises.org books. Stick out tongue

Nerditarian:

Why Mr. Tucker is right to assert what he did about the allure of the 5th volume being mostly contained in its myster, I'm sure if you wanted to first learn Rothbard's longhand and then translate it on your own time over an extended period of time[probably the better part of all your free time for the better part of a decade] at the Mises library, Mr. Tucker would not stop you, would he?  

Buy me a plane ticket... Big Smile Haha...

jtucker:

That would be great. Actually, I'm thinking that 10 years in those archives are needed to get them all in order.

Only 10 years? Wink

Well.. should I ever manage to get over to Auburn, I'd be more than happy too donate my time for the archiving efforts.

By the way, is Rothbard's handwriting actually that hard too read? Or was he just being self depreciating? May seem a weird question, but this has me wondering what it actually looks like. lol

Mine is also illegible to anyone but myself. Cool

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Mr Tucker, as we're on the topic of books, I don't suppose you could tell us any important books will be released this year by the LvMI?

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

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Giles,

 

In the back of the 2009 catalog at about page 34 they have the upcoming releases.

 

http://mises.org/books/2009catalog.pdf

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Hi Jeffrey, Thank you SO much for your response on this matter.

Over the years, I've found it interesting that there is so much interest in the unpublished 5th volume but very low interest in the published 4 volumes. I'm not saying that is true in this case, but I offer it as an observation from accumulated evidence.

In considering whether to act on this, please keep in mind the degree to which the existence of an audiobook is skewing this evidence. I haven't purchased the set, but I've downloaded and listened to every single chapter as soon as Dr. Lilley's recordings are put up on the media library.

Also please consider how the ideas of the volume will disseminate far beyond the number of people who actually read it.  Whatever Rothbard's certainly brilliant insights were into the process of drafting and ratifying the Constitution would have enormous currency in writings and discussions on the internet.  And in these times, we need all the strong theoretical and historical arguments we can bring to bear.

If you were to simply scan and post them (perhaps only for Mises.org members in good standing if you don't want it misinterpreted by enemies) I'm sure dozens of folk here would pore over them for hours on end in order to rescue this gem.  Even if it were then only available in electronic format, that would be SO much better than nothing.

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