Just a brief introduction: I've been an active social democrat for about 10 years, more out of necessity than choice, working mainly in public housing advocacy and welfare rights. Stumbled across mises.org looking for works against intellectual property.
This site is opening up a whole world of thought I haven't seen before. Thanks for providing this terrific resource!
The universe, it seems, does have a sense of irony.
Seriously though, I didn't know what Minarchy was until a few hours ago.
This site has been a breath of fresh air.
Welcome aboard Teuch! I'm still learning the ropes, but if you need anything, ask me anything.
Periodically the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
Thomas Jefferson
Welcome to the forums. I shall leave you with something to ponder. Social democracy as I understand it involves the 'democratization' of the social realm. A simple definition, yet I would like to propose to you a 'thought experiment' if it can be called such. I take it that you advocate voting in the work place due to your political affiliation. I propose to you this, that the free market is a mass voting system. With each penny, you get a vote. Say you are apart of a group of 10,000 individuals and every four years you get together and vote for what car you are all going to drive. It would be something like such: four years of Ford, four years of Toyota, four years of Nissan. Do you think there would be much stake in trying to figure out which care is actually best? Even though the thought that your car is going to be picked for you essentially exists? That is the principle of our political system. Now contrast that with the free market. Say you love Toyota. It is your favorite brand. You spend your money [ establish your vote ] and you get your car. What you vote for, is what you essentially get in the market. Is that not a more justice system for workers? The ability to receive what is demanded after payment is rendered? Perhaps we will get into one's ability for such payments in this forum but I would like to hold that off until you have pondered this.
Also you should give a listen to this lecture by David Gordon, a very smart man who reviews books at the Mises institute. It is on the history and evolution of social democracy as it breaks from traditional Marxist socialism.
The Rise of Social Democracy
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
teuch:I've been an active social democrat for about 10 years, more out of necessity than choice...
I've been an active social democrat for about 10 years, more out of necessity than choice...
Hrm... describe this "more out of necessity than choice". You chose, obviously. You did not mention coercion, so I'll assume it was voluntary. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm simply pointing out to you the missteps in the language you're using. You'll learn. I did.
Welcome to the board.
Hello, it's good to see that this site is reaching out to people and I hope that you will join us in our desire for a truly free world and society, and I hope that you will be able to see past the veil of statism and democracy. If you would like to discuss any ideological issues I would love to converse with somone who holds a different perspective.
Thanks Wanderer! I'll let you know.. just as soon as I find the ropes!
Laughing Man: Welcome to the forums. I shall leave you with something to ponder. Social democracy as I understand it involves the 'democratization' of the social realm. A simple definition, yet I would like to propose to you a 'thought experiment' if it can be called such. I take it that you advocate voting in the work place due to your political affiliation.
Welcome to the forums. I shall leave you with something to ponder. Social democracy as I understand it involves the 'democratization' of the social realm. A simple definition, yet I would like to propose to you a 'thought experiment' if it can be called such. I take it that you advocate voting in the work place due to your political affiliation.
This should be something worked out between employees and employers, IMHO.
Working for a non-profit, there is a great emphasis on consensus: the decisions and direction of our organization is something we must all agree upon for something to be carried forward. In theory, if one person completely rejects a proposal then it cannot go forward. I say 'in theory', because is practice no new ideas are put forward, unless they have been sounded out and brokered behind the scenes, undermining the whole purpose of consensus through discussion. We are always presented with a fait accompli, followed by a ritual raising of the hands. That said, I think consensus is a management style and not a political system.
Case in point: I've spent the better part of 6 months writing short booklet containing answers to our most common queries, and would like to see them published on the web, indexed into Google. This cannot be done, I am told, for copyright reasons, and that real estate agencies might distribute them and therefore will get used 'for profit', which is against our charter. They are currently printed on demand and posted out as required, or more commonly just read out over the phone.
BTW I think David Gordon seems to understand Marxism better than most Marxists I have met.
Daniel Waite: Hrm... describe this "more out of necessity than choice". You chose, obviously. You did not mention coercion, so I'll assume it was voluntary. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm simply pointing out to you the missteps in the language you're using. You'll learn. I did. Welcome to the board.
I identify as a social democrat mainly because (where I live at least) it is a safe middle ground with very little 'baggage' associated with other terms. In the past I have identified as a left-libertarian, but that has confused people and upset at least one other person calling themselves left-libertarian.
Having been restlessly involved with various causes since school, and I have yet to be involved with a group that isn't left-leaning or outright socialist in nature. The challenge for me has been to find groups that promote causes to which I can identify, to help further that cause.
As a loud and vocal opponent of the war in Afghanistan I have worked mainly with socialists and various 'collectives' that are firmly rooted in the left. Political activism is completely monopolized by the left.
The dilemma is whether to cease activism entirely because of disagreements in other areas, or work together in narrow areas on interest.
On a related note, there has been a tendency to for groups to deliberately blur the lines, and start promoting every other pet cause as well; a recent (surreal) protest against the Iraq war ended with someone in a panda suit getting up and giving an impassioned speech on the welfare of dancing bears. The bubble & squeak tendency among protest groups in general is getting much worse IMHO, but that is a whole 'nother post.
The Late Andrew Ryan: Hello, it's good to see that this site is reaching out to people and I hope that you will join us in our desire for a truly free world and society, and I hope that you will be able to see past the veil of statism and democracy. If you would like to discuss any ideological issues I would love to converse with somone who holds a different perspective.
A lot of the material here requiring me to change mental gears in a pretty dramatic way, which is a great thing BTW!
I'd like to converse with someone who holds a different perspective, and one that isn't just a variation on the same leftist themes!
teuch: A lot of the material here requiring me to change mental gears in a pretty dramatic way, which is a great thing BTW! I'd like to converse with someone who holds a different perspective, and one that isn't just a variation on the same leftist themes!
Mate, if you have an open mind and stick around - you'll go far!
There need to be more people like teuch in this world.
Blueline976: There need to be more people like teuch in this world.
For real.
Honestly, almost every forum I go to, new users come on and get mean and defensive almost immediately. This new person gives me more hope. :)
Giant_Joe: Blueline976: There need to be more people like teuch in this world. For real. Honestly, almost every forum I go to, new users come on and get mean and defensive almost immediately. This new person gives me more hope. :)
Thanks for your positive responses. I'm looking forward to some vigorous and lively discussions in the weeks ahead!
Welcome, and I look forward to debate.
I'm glad you
teuch: [look] forward to some vigorous and lively discussions in the weeks ahead!
because that's what you're going to get.
People here can get to seem aggressive, but they're just passionate. You seem like an intelligent guy (woman?) so this will be obvious.
Again, welcome. The more the merrier!
The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community.
Lol, not even here for 2 days and Teuch is already a celebrity on this site.