I've been reading a book right now and I'm becoming more convinced that Osama Bin Laden just really hate the Saudi Arabian government. By supporting the Saudi Arabian government Osama sees the US as part of an evil empire with the British and the Anglo-Saxon internationalists that want to take the wealth away from their nations. He wants to kick us out of the Middle-East and he wants the people of Saudi Arabia to have control of their wealth.
He obviously wants to manipulate the region for his own religious purposes... but I'm coming to the conclusion that Ron Paul did. Osama Bin Laden tried to get the Saudi Government to let him help them with the Mujahadeen but they refused and instead went to the United States for support. The US said that they would take the troops out in 1991 but we didn't so Osama got all upset at us. He declared fatwas and attacked various military targets throughout the region causing us to withdraw in 2003, and he attacked various military bases of the Saudi government. He views the Saudi Arabian government as a very corrupt one and he thinks that because we're supporting it that we're inextricably tied to it.
The book I'm reading is called The Secret History of Al-Qaeda. But, I just thought I'd share that. I used to think Ron Paul was crazy for suggesting that our own foreign policy caused 9-11. I thought that it might have lead to 9-11 or indirectly caused people to be upset at it... but I just thought that suggesting that we were completely to blame for it was somewhat ridiculous. Now it doesn't seem so ridiculous to me anymore. I've always liked what Ron Paul had to say and I know he's doing some of these things just because he's a politician and he's trying to spread the message but his views aren't that crazy as far as history is concerned.
Yeah, I think that OBL was also a CIA asset, or at least, he led CIA to believe he was their asset. CIA had a long history of involvement in Afghanistan and supported the mujahideen against the Russians. Al-Qaeda was the name of one of the mujahideen's bases. It is not and never was a terrorist organization except in the minds of stupid, lazy CIA leadership, stupid lazy American news media and the stupid, lazy American public. Somehow, a relationship developed between OBL and CIA. The fanaticism of OBL is overblown. He was an egotistical, yet intelligent and passionate, self-appointed defender of his culture and religion (and, ultimately, his family). I don't think that OBL operated under very many illusions, certainly far fewer illusions than CIA operates under.
OBL was supposed to take responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. Americans needed a face to blame. The planners of 9/11 had chosen OBL to be that face and thought they had secured his agreement. After the 9/11 attacks, before he was killed by US forces in Afghanistan, this is what OBL actually said about them. Why the hell would he deny involvement after going through such great lengths to pull off an attack of such stunning success?? Did he think denial would deflect US retaliation?? Surely, if his message was to warn us out of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Palestine, the best way to do that would have been to say, "Yeah, MoFos, I did it... now stay out of the Middle East!" The official narrative simply doesn't make any sense, even on its face.
The hunt for OBL was supposed to have been a farce. He was to have been the Emmanuel Goldstein of the New World Order. Instead, OBL double-crossed CIA. For that, he paid with his life. He died in the mountains of Tora Bora in December of 2001. The Pentagon ensured he got his come-uppance for daring to snub his nose at The Powers That Be. Why did he double-cross (or, more importantly, why did he agree to play along in the first place?) Because he knew that Saudi intelligence (that is, the Saudi royal family) is in bed with the US because of their shared oil interests. He believed that Saudi wealth is being plundered by the West (he may be right, I'm not familiar with all the details). This was his opportunity to get back at Saudi Arabia - the Near Enemy - who obviously cooperated in the 9/11 attacks (where did almost all the hijackers come from?). America, Britain, Israel... these are the Far Enemy, they are not the traitors within the house. The Near Enemy are the Saudi royals and that's who OBL really wanted to hurt, more than anyone else.
Clayton -
Well, Osama didn't take responsibility for the 9-11 attacks at first. That still doesn't necessarily mean that he's a farce or that he's a phony. I think we're delving too much into conspiracy theories here. I think it's certainly possible that the US government could have been using the Mujahadeen as part of their assets until 9-11. I don't deny that possibility. But let's be honest here for a second. Al-Qaeda has had grievences against us for supporting Saudi Arabia's government. They don't like it since the government is really corrupt and they link our support for them as a reason why they should attack us. So in a sense, by us going into Saudi Arabia and helping the government out in the first gulf war only fueled their fire.
Blowback makes sense... I'm not talking about any conspiracy theories.
The greatest evidence for blowback comes from the terrorists own mouths. The pro-war politicians and pundits (even Juan Williams) never quote the terrorists correctly (if they even quote them at all). Here are the words from Faisal Shahzad, the would-be NYC bomber:
I want to plead guilty and I'm going to plead guilty a hundred times forward because until the hour the US pulls it forces from Iraq and Afghanistan and stops the drone strikes in Somalia and Yemen and in Pakistan and stops the occupation of Muslim lands and stops killing the Muslims and stops reporting the Muslims to its government, we will be attacking US, and I plead guilty to that. Well, the people select the government. We consider them all the same. [...] Well, the drone hits in Afghanistan and Iraq, they don't see children, they don't see anybody. They kill women, children, they kill everybody. It's a war, and in war, they kill people. They're killing all Muslims. I am part of the answer to the US terrorizing the Muslim nations and the Muslim people, and on behalf of that, I'm avenging the attacks, because only -- like living in US, the Americans only care about their people, but they don't care about the people elsewhere in the world when they die. Similarly, in Gaza Strip, somebody has to go and live with the family whose house is bulldozed by the Israeli bulldozer. There's a lot of aggression. We Muslims are one community. We're not divided.
Well, the people select the government. We consider them all the same. [...] Well, the drone hits in Afghanistan and Iraq, they don't see children, they don't see anybody. They kill women, children, they kill everybody. It's a war, and in war, they kill people. They're killing all Muslims.
I am part of the answer to the US terrorizing the Muslim nations and the Muslim people, and on behalf of that, I'm avenging the attacks, because only -- like living in US, the Americans only care about their people, but they don't care about the people elsewhere in the world when they die. Similarly, in Gaza Strip, somebody has to go and live with the family whose house is bulldozed by the Israeli bulldozer. There's a lot of aggression. We Muslims are one community. We're not divided.
http://www.project-reason.org/newsfeed/item/transcript_of_faisal_shahzad_guilty_plea/
After reading that how can you possibly buy into the myth that they “hate us for our freedom”?
Research a very intelligent person named Milton William Cooper.
William Cooper was reared in an Air Force family. As a child he lived in many different countries, graduating from Yamato High School in Japan. Since he has traveled through or lived in many different foreign countries Mr. Cooper has a world view much different than most Americans. William served with the Strategic Air Command, United States Air Force. He held a secret clearance working on B-52 bombers, KC-135 refueling aircraft, and Minuteman missiles. William received his Honorable Discharge from the United States Air Force in 1965. William joined the United States Navy fulfilling a dream previously frustrated by chronic motion sickness. He served aboard the submarine USS Tiru (SS-416), USS Tombigbee (AOG-11), Naval Support Activity Danang RVN, Naval Security and Intelligence Camp Carter RVN, Danang Harbor Patrol RVN, Dong Ha River Security Group RVN, USS Charles Berry (DE-1035), Headquarters Commander in Chief Pacific Fleet, USS Oriskany (CVA-34). Cooper was a member of the Office of Naval Security and Intelligence serving as a Harbor and River Patrol Boat Captain at Danang and the Dong Ha River Security Group, Cua Viet, Republic of Vietnam. William Cooper was awarded several medals for his leadership and heroism during combat including two with "V" for Valor. He served on the Intelligence Briefing Team for the Commander In Chief of the Pacific Fleet. William was the Petty Officer of the Watch and designated KL-47 SPECAT operator in the CINCPACFLT Command Center at Makalapa Hawaii. There he held a Top Secret, Q, SI, security clearance. William Cooper achieved the rank of First Class Petty Officer, QM1, E-6 after only 8 years of Naval service, a difficult task in any branch of the United States military. William Cooper received an Honorable Discharge from the United States Navy on December 11, 1975. William attended Long Beach City College where he picked up an Associate of Science Degree in Photography. He founded the Absolute Image Studio and Gallery of Fine Art Photography in Long Beach, California. William held the position of Executive Director of Adelphi Business College, Pacific Coast Technical Institute, and National Technical College. Mr. Cooper was the National Marketing Coordinator for National Education and Software. He produced several documentaries covering subjects such as the Kennedy assassination and secret black projects that have built flying disk shaped craft. William is an internationally acclaimed radio personality broadcasting the Hour Of The Time on WBCQ worldwide short-wave 7.415 MHz from 10 PM until 11 PM Eastern Standard Time (0300 to 0400 UTC) Monday through Thursday nights. William Cooper is the author of Behold A Pale Horse. The book has become the best selling underground book of all time. It is read and promoted by word of mouth by People of all races, religions, and nationalities.
Mr. Cooper is a world class lecturer, one of the few other than superstars, monarchs, and Popes who have appeared at Wembly in London.
"Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good."
“When people talk of the freedom of writing, speaking or thinking I cannot choose but laugh. No such thing ever existed. No such thing now exists; but I hope it will exist. But it must be hundreds of years after you and I shall write and speak no more.”
"Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people."
"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing."
“Fear is the foundation of most governments.”
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence”
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) was a founding father of the US, the author of the draft of the Declaration of Independence, and the thirdPresident of the United States of America.
“If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless”
“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale”
“That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical”
Could keep going and going.
There's hundreds/thousands more quotes out there, people need to start waking up in this corrupt world we live in, and actually educate themselves. Not for my benefit but for there own.
Napzz: Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) was a founding father of the US, the author of the draft of the Declaration of Independence, and the thirdPresident of the United States of America. “If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless” “I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale”
I'll have to read-up more on Cooper. I just read his wiki-article. I'm sure he's got a lot of interesting things to say.
FYI, the first quote is bogus. See Historical Response #12 here: http://www.garynorth.com/public/department141.cfm
As for the second, see Reponse #2.
As for why Osama hates us, check my signiture.
Ok thanks very much for correcting me.
There's audio archives with over 300 hours of Cooper.
I'll take a look at the link in your sig.
Ron Paul. A new Hope :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA
This makes the assumption that Faisal Shahzad's attitude is indicative of others, and that he correct when he says, "We Muslims are one community. We're not divided."
It's possibly true, but personally I think it was an attempt to increase the average American's distrust of Mulims, in the hopes of generating more support among Muslims for his cause. It doesn't really matter to me why he did what he did, nor does it matter why people flew planes into towers. Attacks on innocents are always wrong. His justification is every bit as shallow as the US government's justification for killing innocents in the Middle East. The hotdog vendor in Times Square and the bus boys working at the Windows on the World were as much responsible for the murders in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. as as the innocents murdered in those countries were for his attack.
The US has a very paternalistic view of the rest of the world. It's a common belief that we should not respond to provication, or at the very least try and understand why the provication is happening, but others are justified in responding with violence. We hold ourselves, or others like us, responsible for our actions, but absolve those in different cultures of theirs.
faber est suae quisque fortunae