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A Laissez-Faire 180

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cognitivist posted on Fri, Sep 10 2010 3:46 AM

What if a new set of leaders turned around, pulled regulations out of the market, poured the stimulus money into unemployment and welfare, and let the market perform as it would otherwise without crutches? What would our economic environment look like?

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up somebody else." Booker T. Washington
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How would pouring Federal Reserve notes into unemployment and welfare be lettingthe market perform without crutches?

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hugolp replied on Fri, Sep 10 2010 4:04 AM

How would pouring Federal Reserve notes into unemployment and welfare be lettingthe market perform without crutches?

It certainly is a better option than using that money to save GS and JPM or hiring the politician's friend company to build roads to nowhere.

At the end, in a market system the people is supposed to be able to save so we can go through unemployment or other bad periods. But the inflationary policies prevented the normal formation of savings while promoting consumption and debt. It is not totally crazy to grant some protection to the people that did not save so they can go through the correction. The situation is how it is.

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It certainly is a better option than using that money to save GS and JPM or hiring the politician's friend company to build roads to nowhere.

Oh, okay. I agree with that. I wasn't sure if the question was whether or not to use the stimulus package at all. If we're forced to, I agree with you.

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hugolp replied on Fri, Sep 10 2010 5:19 AM

Oh, okay. I agree with that. I wasn't sure if the question was whether or not to use the stimulus package at all. If we're forced to, I agree with you.

Well, it was saying even more. Maybe we should use it even if there was no obligation during a supposed transition to a libertarian society. If you suddenly stop the malfare state (also known as wellfare state), people will have problems. The transition wont be easy and without savings because of the corporatist/mercantilist/socialist policies (you pick the name) the poor people will suffer. So its not that crazy to propose some kind of temporal social sytem during the transition. Being realistic, I am not advocating the policy.

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If you "pour stimulus money into unemployment and welfare" that means you have inflated the prices of those good the unemployed and the poor need most. Because you are giving them the money to spend on their needs, but have not increased the actual supply of their needs. Giving out welfare checks does not make food grow etc.

So it's saying "Before the gov't gets out of the way as it should, let's have it give one last gift to the poor:  an uneccesary doubling of food, clothing, housing and  and energy prices."

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How does inflating the welfare recipient's money supply drive up food costs? The food is a market-wide good not specific to the welfare system...

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up somebody else." Booker T. Washington
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It's certainly true that not only poor people eat. But you don't have to give free money to everyone who eats to make the price of food go up. Just to a lot of people.

"The total cost of all federal assistance programs -- including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and various welfare programs -- accounts for nearly one-half of all money spent by the federal government." That's from http://usa.usembassy.de/society-socialsecurity.htm

Well!

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I realize that seems like a legitimate site, but how is that possible? Don't we use over 50% of the budget for national defense?

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I wonder what that site is including in "other welfare programs"

In States a fresh law is looked upon as a remedy for evil. Instead of themselves altering what is bad, people begin by demanding a law to alter it. ... In short, a law everywhere and for everything!

~Peter Kropotkin

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double post

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Smiling Dave:
Just to a lot of people.

I still don't see how reallocating the current expenditures, inflation-adjusted, to expand the welfare programs would result in food and energy prices going up. If I assume correctly, welfare is subsistance living compared to your lower quartile private-sector real wages. And 7.30 isn't a very good living wage, even. If anything, demand would drop because of more people having to spend even less than before and the government borrowing the money but not raising taxes to put people in the welfare system who are currently unemployed or underemployed even. I thought Austrians mostly assumed that pulling regulations out of the market would cause it to bounce back fairly quickly, at least in comparison to economies that feature heavy interventionism as the route to revival.

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up somebody else." Booker T. Washington
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Something like what I'm describing would be like using the credit card, but just for welfare. I also advocate mostly doing away with welfare during periods of economic prosperity.

"If you want to lift yourself up, lift up somebody else." Booker T. Washington
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Defense is around 50% of discretionary spending, but then there's mandatory spending (thing like SS and medicare/medicaid) which make up a greater portion of the total budget. I'm sure you could google "federal budget" and see how it breaks down. Whether or not the numbers are accurate is another question. 

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4.06% of GDP (2005 est.)

That is about 12% of the budget if you multiply by the fraction of GDP/Spending.

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