So frequently when arguing with people about free markets, said people will declare free markets "the law of the jungle" or they will resort to citing third world nations as examples of the ultimate free market economies. It would seem that Somalia might be one example of this kind of nation - the mainstream press would have you believe it is a country in crisis. But I am curious what my fellow Mises forum members would have to say as to what is really going on in a place like Somalia?
Is Somalia really a free market? Is the "lawlessness" you read about in Somalia dangerous? What kind of reforms, if any, might be needed to improve the life for those living there?
This Mises member posted an article on the topic:
http://mises.org/Community/blogs/twocents/archive/2007/09/25/somalia-quot-worst-governed-nation-quot-in-africa.aspx
As far as I know, foreign invaders like Ethopia and US meddling is making the situation worse.
http://libregamewiki.org - The world's only encyclopedia on free(as in freedom) gaming.
I would add the similar case of Haiti. My Haitian friends are so frustrated that they do not envision any kind of solution, be it free by themselves or thrtough U.S or U.N. intervention. These cases remain an example of failures of humanity and all various systems of thought.
Art transcends ideology.
http://mises.org/Community/blogs/ruben
Check this out: http://www.peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf
There's also some articles around here if I'm not mistaken. In any case I think the situation is roughly that there are a number of clans all fighting for control or whatever government the UN tries to set up. I'd avoid using it as an example if I were you.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
please enlighten me why somalia is anarchist.
my first instinct is that its as anarchist as North America. but wait if you look close North America includes USA, Canada, Mexico.
what about somalia. it include puntland, somaliland, Galmudug, Maakhir
mind you im just reading this off wikipedia, having never been to somalia or anywhere near it or read anything in depth about it.
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
abexman: So frequently when arguing with people about free markets, said people will declare free markets "the law of the jungle" or they will resort to citing third world nations as examples of the ultimate free market economies. It would seem that Somalia might be one example of this kind of nation - the mainstream press would have you believe it is a country in crisis. But I am curious what my fellow Mises forum members would have to say as to what is really going on in a place like Somalia?
Somalia and Puntland pretty much lack a government and so I would call those places anarchist. Somaliland has a minimal government. The mainstream press lacks the same information that most of us here lack: They have never been there. So they take their bias, what information they hear and take a guess as to what is going on and what the cause is. Being statists the media guesses that the problem is the lack of a state. Libertarians with a Somalia fetish point out that in spite of the violence, society there is working and since we are anti-statists we tend to point out that the working part is due to the lack of a state. Go here for an account of a friend of mine who has been there...twice.
http://polosbastards.com/pb/somalia-back-in-club-mog/
There is only so far theory can go before you have to go see it yourself.
Assuming it is not dangerous is foolish. It is dangerous. To go there you need connections and you need to hire bodyguards. You do not go to a place like Mogadishu and assume that you can hire bodyguards once you get the hotel from the airport because it is likely a person would not make it to the airport without a proper group of gun toting khat chewers in a Toyota Hi-Lux to take them there.
As far as reform goes...without a state reform as we know it doesn't exist. But one could hope that the clans get tired of fighting one another and form a peaceful confederacy. But most likely this peaceful confederacy would take to raiding the Ethiopians, a more organised piracy, and giving the snobby peaceful residents of Somaliland a good trouncing. See, they are Somalis and raiding and warfare are something they seem to enjoy like the ancient Norse used to do. Scandinavia went through about 800 years of clan warfare and civil war before it became a land of sweater wearing peaceful nudists, so perhaps there is hope of "reform" in Somalia but you can bet that statists or libertarians in the west will have nothing to do with it.
http://www.comebackalive.com/phpBB2 Travel, Adventure Travel, Arguments, Recipes.
abexman: So frequently when arguing with people about free markets, said people will declare free markets "the law of the jungle" or they will resort to citing third world nations as examples of the ultimate free market economies. It would seem that Somalia might be one example of this kind of nation - the mainstream press would have you believe it is a country in crisis. But I am curious what my fellow Mises forum members would have to say as to what is really going on in a place like Somalia? Is Somalia really a free market? Is the "lawlessness" you read about in Somalia dangerous? What kind of reforms, if any, might be needed to improve the life for those living there? This Mises member posted an article on the topic: http://mises.org/Community/blogs/twocents/archive/2007/09/25/somalia-quot-worst-governed-nation-quot-in-africa.aspx
There is nothing free market about the food aid Somalis are receiving. A problem with Somalia is that they had a massive Civil War which destroyed much ability for people to function properly and for markets to be efficient. Tribes still seperate themselves and create an atmosphere of dispersion. In a free market society resources and people could flow freely, without the impedence that currently exists in Somalia.
The South is ridden with conflict. It is the Somaliland in the North that is usually presented as a local success story. It isn`t stateless however, just the state that they have going on isn`t internationaly recognised, not that they are very bothered about it.
Byzantine:Low average IQ.
I'm curious, Byzantine ... do you believe a functional free market system would only be able to prosper among a population of mid to high IQ, and if yes, what's the alternative for "low IQ" folks?A benevolent, intelligent king?Or do you simply contend that while a free market is still the best option for those "low IQ" people, it doesn't reflect what it would be fit to achieve among more intelligent fellows?
The security situation in Somalia is dire because the U.N. imposed government has driven out the honest competition. However other sectors of the economy are doing well to the extent that they can provide their own security.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power