hi all, this is just merely my opinion. i would say its probably gonna quite random but hope readers can read carefully or understand what im trying to say, i just instantly write whats coming through.
Part1.Title : Future Prediction
more human population = more suffering most likely to occur
high unemployment rate, more 'fake' job sector will need to be created(especially service sector), if we still depend heavily on monetary system just imagine theres 2 main level going on. 1st on is the human population which is like office workers, IT industry, engineer, doctor, lawyer, etc etc.. which this part generates most amount of activity as well as massive cash flow.
2nd level would be related with the most basic survival of human race, which is farmer, food production related. unfortunately at this level the activity is kinda low, cash flow is not active as the 1st level. even if gov can force 50% of world's human population to get into agricultural, mind you the land in this world are limited & theres no way either we can cut off all the trees to grow crops/food.
in the end, the only ways to control this is inflation! we have to give excuses saying everything price has gone up just to enable the people in 1st level do not have big buying power, so that other people also have chance to buy what they want. however no matter what your money is backed up by either gold/oil , diamond or even alien's poo it will be worthless in someday!
in fact, in school we learn how to compete with each other, then grow up also compete with others see which one has bigger house, bigger car, more buying power, etc etc.. this is gonna be doomsday in progress!!!
conclusion : infinite human needs and wants, in a world of finite resources, the only way to preserve those finite resources is STOP SEEKING economic growth.
Part 2. What do u want from gov
this is merely my opinion(doesnt know anything about economy) how is the world's future would be like or would gov do something similar like this to achieve status of developed/mature country?
1.)- gov should have "Free Energy" research department, the main task is to invent a completely clean energy that does not harm the environment at all. this is very important as it will revolutionize the way economy & social works in next few century, perhaps forever as long as human still exist.
- for eg: the gov can come up with a "free energy device" (today, we call it as battery. but its has far more potential than a battery) this 'device' or this type of 'power source' will be able to change people's way of life. the 'power source' can be use in automation process, industrial work, home electricity usage, etc etc..
2.)- but for now, gov should have focus more on agricultural sector. what i mean is it isnt just a traditional way of growing crops, or farming. but actually can completely revolutionize the agricultural sector. the next step needed should be have another "automation or robot research" gov department. the main job is creates/invent machine that will be able to completely replace the job of a farmer. sure we all know these mechanical/robot will require some source of power to operate, thats why i have intially suggest "free energy device" will come in use to operate the require machine.
assume, robotic technology will be advanced enough to completely replace farmer's job, agricultural sector, growing plants, thus will drastically reduce the basis cost of food price, no more lack of food supply as there is no such thing ppl in the country starve.
3.) next step probably those advanced robot invention will be able to replace into service sector/low level job/cleaner/janitor, factory worker, machine operator, mining, taxi/ bus driver, delivery boy, etc etc..
4.) computer/ AI intelligence, will work together with human, implementing, replace AI brains into higher types of management job, supervisor, robot policemen, robot nurse, sales, helpdesk bot, robot clerk, robot secterary, robot admin, etc etc..
at this point, what does human do if robot has almost replace all our traditional job? the solution is pretty straightforward actually, when we're at the stage where almost all the job has been replaced by robot, we actually no longer need to rely so heavily on the monetary economy system to survive, our basic need, like food, medical will be done by robots, and we are at the stage where robot is working/support the survival of mankind. as a human being, this is the greatest time where u dont need to worry about lack of money and such, youre free to become what you want, if you like painting, just go become painter, if like soccer, just become professional football player, musician, turn your hobby into career, pro skater, pro gamer, etc etc.. as you could imagine.
while the smarter human one, can become philosopher, thinker? brain-storming, scientist, developer, engineer, researcher, astronaut, can build your own spaceship, this is the stage where human can actually trying to turn startrek movie into reality, bcoz we can get the basic needs, such as equipments, processed raw material from those working robots, and we use it to build spaceship, anti-gravity vechicle, travel at speed of light, as long as you want to build/invent what you like, that has become your job.
humankind will be able to travel to moons, mars, build happiest themepark on moons, university on mars, or even spend your life travel in space, exploring universe, establish contact with "alien?" travelling to another solar system, build another civilization on Mars, at this stage, human can considered as in star trek movie dreams come true, and human perhaps.. humankind has living in the same world, no more countries, we are using universal currency, no more race labelling, but all humans is the same and everyone is called as Earthlings..lol
sooner, or later each family or group of ppl will be able to travel to space independently, human are so intelligent and smart already that they can survive on their own, move to any planets they want, build their own civilization, or will be able to build any dreams you like.. in my opinion, nothing is impossible anything can start from education.
Part3. Choosing a sustainable leader
how to see a person as potential leader :
- he/she do not cares about money/wealth
- he/she definitely not rich & materialistic
- he/she cares about ppl's welfare and survival
- he/she willing to sacrifice their own personal time and money for others
- he/she blames him/herself when something goes wrong
alright enough rambling.. bye
Good joke.
...I wish.
Wheat, corn and rice prices have more than doubled in the past two years, and oil prices have more than tripled since the start of 2004. expecting to have Global Food's Shortage within 20years, at that time doesnt matter how much money you have everyone needs to pay a lot more than ever. thats actually equal less amount of buying power than ever b4, u thinks everyone wants that?
jong52yuara: more human population = more suffering most likely to occur
In 1776 the population was roughly 2.5 million and in 2008 is about 305 million.
I think you already know whether real GDP per capita has increased or decreased since then.
"I cannot prove, but am prepared to affirm, that if you take care of clarity in reasoning, most good causes will take care of themselves, while some bad ones are taken care of as a matter of course." -Anthony de Jasay
Friend, this is the Austrian School. Everything you posted, is from some other perspective, wildly out of tune with what we discuss here.
@ SolidC - GDP is meaningless in a statist inflationary economy.
jong52yuara:- he/she cares about ppl's welfare and survival
These are the worst one.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
jong52yuara:conclusion : infinite human needs and wants, in a world of finite resources, the only way to preserve those finite resources is STOP SEEKING economic growth.
I AGREE!
You starve yourself first and I'll follow.
Now to your points:
jong52yuara:1.)- gov should have "Free Energy" research department
lol, i thought the point was to stop production... why offer *** for free, that'll just lead to more consumption/economic growth.
the main task is to invent a completely clean energy that does not harm the environment at all. this is very important as it will revolutionize the way economy & social works in next few century, perhaps forever as long as human still exist.
This is proposterous, we need pollution to kill off a % of the population to keep the earth from over crowding and destabilize the market. Stop thinking progressively!
jong52yuara: but for now, gov should have focus more on agricultural sector. what i mean is it isnt just a traditional way of growing crops, or farming. but actually can completely revolutionize the agricultural sector. the next step needed should be have another "automation or robot research" gov department.
WTF? WE NEED LESS FOOD SO WE CAN STARVE THE POOR AND CLEAN UP OUR OVERCROWDED CITIES!
jong52yuara:3.) next step probably those advanced robot invention will be able to replace into service sector/low level job/cleaner/janitor, factory worker, machine operator, mining, taxi/ bus driver, delivery boy, etc etc..
But then we'll need people programming the robots and things, and designing the circuit boards and processors... and these things require specialized education. This leads to economic productivity which we didn't want, remember?
jong52yuara:4.) computer/ AI intelligence, will work together with human, implementing, replace AI brains into higher types of management job, supervisor, robot policemen, robot nurse, sales, helpdesk bot, robot clerk, robot secterary, robot admin, etc etc..
Actually, we should build robotic warlords to kill off humanity and lessen our productive growth.
jong52yuara:Part3. Choosing a sustainable leader
What the hell's a "sustainable leader"? Do they lead 24/7 without sleeping? That'd be badass.
liberty student:@ SolidC - GDP is meaningless in a statist inflationary economy.
not if you index it to the m2/3
of course it doesn't measure the wealth of the market, but it does (mostly) measure the production.
banned:What the hell's a "sustainable leader"? Do they lead 24/7 without sleeping? That'd be badass.
Android.
banned:not if you index it to the m2/3 of course it doesn't measure the wealth of the market, but it does (mostly) measure the production.
I don't even believe it measures production. How much of the US's GDP is military and government spending, and how much of it produces nothing, because it is not susceptible to competition and market forces?
I think GDP is a worthless figure, and I use every opportunity I can to point that out to laymen.
Wow.Take a deep breath, slow down. Download some of the free PDFs (Mises, Rothbard, Hoppe etc) from the media section, do some reading, and maybe take a few English lessons.
Then come back and post something that isn't an unintelligable stream of consciousness. Thanks.
Base model cars of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but quarter-mile races.
"but for now, gov should have focus more on agricultural sector. what i mean is it isnt just a traditional way of growing crops, or farming. but actually can completely revolutionize the agricultural sector"
Hey, we could call it the Great Leap Forward!
Are you quite done yet? Good. The only thing the government "needs" to do is crawl away and die. That is it. Nothing more.
-Jon
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
Stop seeking 'economic growth' actually means expansion of economy which actually i means like abandoned construction project, build up too much businesses but not useful(money laundering activities), not using recycled material on construction project, ridiculous maintainence cost, causing bad environment, pollution & etc etc.. i know there r so many people making wild speculation about this, but pls dont misunderstood. my main idea is how we suppose able to create a better world without wasting so many natural resources as it is limited. i also didnt say have to going back to stone age, but using modern technologies that can help our jobs easier and sooner it has the ability to support the basic survival of human being. when the supplement has been able to replaced by machines, human actually doesnt need to rely too heavily on monetary system anymore, by then human can move up a higher level of jobs, or turn hobby into jobs & such
another scenario :
just imagine all the buidings and houses we see today, in 50 years from now.. probably need to demolish all of them because its getting too old and maybe not safe to use/stay anymore.
after blow it up, its pile and piles of trash.. where does those rubbish have to go? dont you think wouldnt it is better if somehow or someway we can reuse the material and for build a new building? what im seeing now is the landfill keeps piling up and we seriously facing finite resources very soon
You're silly.
Why don't "we" (i.e. you) come up with ways to recycle this trash then at an economically efficient level? And then see if anyone values the service.
just imagine all the buidings and houses we see today, in 50 years from now.. probably need to demolish all of them because its getting too old and maybe not safe to use/stay anymore. after blow it up, its pile and piles of trash.. where does those rubbish have to go? dont you think wouldnt it is better if somehow or someway we can reuse the material and for build a new building? what im seeing now is the landfill keeps piling up and we seriously facing finite resources very soon
edited : this is what i actually means by stop seeking 'economic growth' not the type you think
Ohhhh...of course! When you say "stop seeking economic growth" you mean that we should all be satisfied with living in delapodated houses and working in unsafe buildings.
As capital goods and consumer goods depreciate and we have to get rid of them, your solution is not to build new ones. The end result being that we would never invest and never consume.
Your argument is pure rubbish, despite being entertaining to read.
Irish Liberty Forum
Indeed. C+I+G+X-M = a load of rubbish.
liberty student:I don't even believe it measures production. How much of the US's GDP is military and government spending, and how much of it produces nothing, because it is not susceptible to competition and market forces?
But government expenditures are a function of production in the state controlled market. It [GDP] is a sufficient measure of production, it's just not at all useful measuring the real wealth of an economy.
banned:But government expenditures are a function of production in the state controlled market. It [GDP] is a sufficient measure of production, it's just not at all useful measuring the real wealth of an economy.
So when the Pentagon loses trillions of dollars in accounting boondoggles, that is a measure of production? When black market activity is not reported, is that production?
Even if you index for M2/M3, you still don't know what amount to factor for as dollars are swallowed up into foreign reserves and sovereign wealth funds.
GDP is useless because the inputs don't make sense. Garbage in, garbage out.
liberty student: When black market activity is not reported, is that production?
But that's the black market, and I was only talking about the statist market.
liberty student:you still don't know what amount to factor for as dollars are swallowed up into foreign reserves and sovereign wealth funds.
I believe Net Exports accounts for that.
liberty student:Garbage in, garbage out.
Right, and GDP measures how much garbage is produced.
banned:Right, and GDP measures how much garbage is produced.
No it doesn't. It only measures what was paid, not what was received. That's why the inputs are garbage, because in a command economy, in a mixed economy, the inputs don't reflect real competitive and market prices.
If someone pays $200 million for an IKEA coffee table, and GDP reflects that, it's meaningless.
GDP doesn't indicate what was produced. It indicates what is consumed. Big difference.
banned:I believe Net Exports accounts for that.
I don't believe it does.
jong52yuara: . . . Part3. Choosing a sustainable leader . . . how to see a person as potential leader : - he/she do not cares about money/wealth - he/she definitely not rich & materialistic - he/she cares about ppl's welfare and survival - he/she willing to sacrifice their own personal time and money for others - he/she blames him/herself when something goes wrong
. . .
Pro Christo et Libertate integre!
Did anyone else immediately think of the "how is babby formed" meme when they read the original post?
*sigh* Oh enviro-communist, where is thy sting?
Even if any of this dreck were true, I fail to see how it concerns me. (I hear there's a galaxy that's suppose to collide with the Milky Way in a billion years; perhaps we should prepare for that as well).
jong52yuara:this is merely my opinion(doesnt know anything about economy)
You've made that abundantly clear. One short and basic lesson should refute everything you've written here, and any other dreams you might conjure up: increase in demand or decrease in supply for a particular commodity results in an increase in prices, which results in a reduction of purchases (assuming a free market in that commodity). This means that when natural resources (like wood or fresh water) begin to diminish, people will, automatically, stop buying so much of them, giving them time to replenish. Similarly if the population becomes high, causing the price of living to increase, people will, almost magically, stop procreating so much.
I'm rather impressed with your ideas; you've managed to take modernized versions of the fantasies of all the major utopian socialists (from Fourier to Trotsky), Plato's ideal society, orthodox Marxism, anti-consumerism, plain old collectivist hatred of competition and self-interest, contemporary eco-scare tactics, and syncretized them into a political-economic system of absolute jibberish.
Diminishing Marginal Utility - IT'S THE LAW!
Let this thread serve as a tribute* to a new ideology: Jibberism
*warning
the simple fact is the growth rate of human population is faster than the natural resources able to supply to all our needs. then gov need to give excuses with this 'inflation' and who is the one paying more? u might probably think, 'yea.. prices of goods has been increased, so do our salary rate. but let me tell you its a trap. because ur salary increment is slower than the increasing rate for price of those goods.
sure you can critize my idea because im not perfect either, & who is the one only knows how to critic but didnt suggest any solution?
jong52yuara:the simple fact is the growth rate of human population is faster than the natural resources able to supply to all our needs.
Natural resources do not sustain human life. Humans must produce those things that they need to survive. Luckily, the more people that exist the greater the amount of things that can be produced.
jong52yuara:sure you can critize my idea because im not perfect either, & who is the one only knows how to critic but didnt suggest any solution?
Here's a suggestion. Type in complete sentences.
Peace
for those who thinks my idea are actually communist, now let me tell you actually also live in some form of communism too.
youself & your kids/everybody else learning from the same school
when youre sick, everybody else also visiting the same hospital
youre using the same internet that everybody else is using in it too
youre watching tv exactly like everybody else is watching,
youre watching the same movie like everybody else is watching
youre listening the music like everybody else is listening
youre buying cars from the very same manufacturer
youre buying your grocery also very same from the food manufacturer/supermarket
youre using the computer made by very same manufacturer
in fact, most of your basic needs are provided by the very same society that made communist possible!
i know if getting rid of those big corporation will be a big drawdown to economy, or whatever theory youre believe in. therefore the solution is if our basic necessity is supported by robots & we can made living possible without relying too heavily on monetary systems because it will be worthless no matter backed up by what due to natural resources always limited. yea.. u might said this is like communist, but wait i mentioned that we should have 'free energy dev' that means if everyone has access to this 'free energy device' actually this is the first step to becoming independent and creating true free society.
i know those bigger guy & big corporation will seriously affected by this due to low profits and such, but actually focusing on money is NOT HEALTHY. money is a just a tools to enable human survive and go on with their lifes. in future i think the idea of money would be too old, need to move on something healthier (for eg: read my first post)
You don't know what communism is. Two people shopping at the same place is not communism.
Seriously, proof-read your posts. They are practically unreadable.
jong52yuara:growth rate of human population is faster than the natural resources able to supply to all our needs
There's a simple solution to this: just allow the market to work its magic and supply of natural resources will quickly fall into equilibrium with demand for them.
jong52yuara:then gov need to give excuses with this 'inflation' and who is the one paying more?
WTF are you palavering about?
jong52yuara: sure you can critize my idea because im not perfect either, & who is the one only knows how to critic but didnt suggest any solution?
It's not that we think your ideas are impractical (though they are by any sane person's standard), or that they're irrational (though they are), or even that the problems you present don't exist (even though they don't). It's that their not problems at all, at least in the sense that problems as such are purely objective facts. You believe that, if present trends continue, humanity is doomed and the universe will implode; my response to this is So what? Everyone's dead in the long run anyway, and it certainly doesn't justify the violent acquisition of people's property. Why do you feel so compelled to uplift humanity anyway? Why not take the more rational view that human beings are no better than dirt?
jong52yuara:therefore the solution is if our basic necessity is supported by robots & we can made living possible without relying too heavily on monetary systems because it will be worthless no matter backed up by what due to natural resources always limited
but the robots will be goed crazy and taking over society.
banned: jong52yuara:therefore the solution is if our basic necessity is supported by robots & we can made living possible without relying too heavily on monetary systems because it will be worthless no matter backed up by what due to natural resources always limited but the robots will be goed crazy and taking over society.
because human programmer did that.. dont blame the robots/machine
Solomon: jong52yuara:growth rate of human population is faster than the natural resources able to supply to all our needs There's a simple solution to this: just allow the market to work its magic and supply of natural resources will quickly fall into equilibrium with demand for them. jong52yuara:then gov need to give excuses with this 'inflation' and who is the one paying more? WTF are you palavering about? jong52yuara: sure you can critize my idea because im not perfect either, & who is the one only knows how to critic but didnt suggest any solution? It's not that we think your ideas are impractical (though they are by any sane person's standard), or that they're irrational (though they are), or even that the problems you present don't exist (even though they don't). It's that their not problems at all, at least in the sense that problems as such are purely objective facts. You believe that, if present trends continue, humanity is doomed and the universe will implode; my response to this is So what? Everyone's dead in the long run anyway, and it certainly doesn't justify the violent acquisition of people's property. Why do you feel so compelled to uplift humanity anyway? Why not take the more rational view that human beings are no better than dirt?
no, human are selfish and greedy, thats why people dont want to walk instead of driving cars, gov launching mission to space to learn more things, human itself want more & more things, it would never end.
jong52yuara:because human programmer did that.. dont blame the robots/machine
but that weren't necessary intentional. And what about self-modifying code?
jong52yuara: Solomon: jong52yuara:growth rate of human population is faster than the natural resources able to supply to all our needs There's a simple solution to this: just allow the market to work its magic and supply of natural resources will quickly fall into equilibrium with demand for them. jong52yuara:then gov need to give excuses with this 'inflation' and who is the one paying more? WTF are you palavering about? jong52yuara: sure you can critize my idea because im not perfect either, & who is the one only knows how to critic but didnt suggest any solution? It's not that we think your ideas are impractical (though they are by any sane person's standard), or that they're irrational (though they are), or even that the problems you present don't exist (even though they don't). It's that their not problems at all, at least in the sense that problems as such are purely objective facts. You believe that, if present trends continue, humanity is doomed and the universe will implode; my response to this is So what? Everyone's dead in the long run anyway, and it certainly doesn't justify the violent acquisition of people's property. Why do you feel so compelled to uplift humanity anyway? Why not take the more rational view that human beings are no better than dirt? no, human are selfish and greedy, thats why people dont want to walk instead of driving cars, gov launching mission to space to learn more things, human itself want more & more things, it would never end.
Edited : human always constantly seek to improve & make life easier, what im suggesting in the first post are no different than that. i do agree everyone's dead in the long run, thats why im saying why we cant make it to the best..?
How did you find the Mises forums, honestly?