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How do mutualists and other anarcho-socialists explain the business cycle?

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Freedom4Me73986 posted on Wed, Nov 30 2011 2:45 PM

Do they believe everything Marx and Keynes said? How does that go along w/ their vision of a "stateless" society?

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Jargon replied on Wed, Nov 30 2011 3:28 PM

Pretty sure that mutualists can recognize the ABCT, could be wrong though. Mutualists aren't really even socialists from what I can tell. They seem to be more like quasi-non-propertarian libertarians

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Answered (Not Verified) Bert replied on Wed, Nov 30 2011 4:41 PM

Have you ever asked a mutualist?  They are more inclined to be influenced by Kropotkin and Bakunin over Marx, and I really have no idea how you through Keynes into the mix.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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What the heck do Keynes and Marx have to do with anarcho-syndaclism or mutualism?

"As in a kaleidoscope, the constellation of forces operating in the system as a whole is ever changing." - Ludwig Lachmann

"When A Man Dies A World Goes Out of Existence"  - GLS Shackle

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For one thing, mutualists don't seem to like gold all that much.

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Jargon replied on Wed, Nov 30 2011 8:26 PM

I just wanted to point out that the main influence on Mutualism is Pierre Proudhon. F4M perhaps if you want to understand mutualists better you should check his wiki.

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The business cycle is the term used to describe the boom and slump nature of capitalism. Sometimes there is full employment, with workplaces producing more and more goods and services, the economy grows and along with it wages. However, as Proudhon argued, this happy situation does not last:

"But industry, under the influence of property, does not proceed with such regularity. . . As soon as a demand begins to be felt, the factories fill up, and everybody goes to work. Then business is lively. . . Under the rule of property, the flowers of industry are woven into none but funeral wreaths. The labourer digs his own grave. . . [the capitalist] tries. . . to continue production by lessening expenses. Then comes the lowering of wages; the introduction of machinery; the employment of women and children . . . the decreased cost creates a larger market. . . [but] the productive power tends to more than ever outstrip consumption. . . To-day the factory is closed. Tomorrow the people starve in the streets. . . In consequence of the cessation of business and the extreme cheapness of merchandise. . . frightened creditors hasten to withdraw their funds [and] Production is suspended, and labour comes to a standstill." [What is Property, pp. 191-192]

Why does this happen? For anarchists, as Proudhon noted, it's to do with the nature of capitalist production and the social relationships it creates ("the rule of property"). The key to understanding the business cycle is to understand that, to use Proudhon's words, "Property sells products to the labourer for more than it pays him for them; therefore it is impossible." [Op. Cit., p. 194] In other words, the need for the capitalist to make a profit from the workers they employ is the underlying cause of the business cycle. If the capitalist class cannot make enough surplus value (profit, interest, rent) then it will stop production, sack people, ruin lives and communities until such time as enough can once again be extracted from working class people. As Proudhon put it (using the term "interest" to cover all forms of surplus value):

"The primary cause of commercial and industrial stagnations is, then, interest on capital, -- that interest which the ancients with one accord branded with the name of usury, whenever it was paid for the use of money, but which they did not dare to condemn in the forms of house-rent, farm-rent, or profit: as if the nature of the thing lent could ever warrant a charge for the lending; that is, robbery." [Op. Cit., p. 193]

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http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secC7.html

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