Current Events

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Andrew Cain — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 07:16:28 GMT

I'm very skeptical of Wikipedia in the social sciences. Not so much in the natural sciences. This isn't to say that I am not skeptical with written sources. It is just when you are in a field in which is constantly invaded by other social sciences who continually do bad jobs, it hardens your heart.

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

A.L.Pruitt — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:51:27 GMT

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Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

John James — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 06:55:26 GMT

Brutus:
Wikipedia is a bad reference!!! Anyone can edit it. Have any others? I'm interested to see a more credible source.

Seriously? You sound like 50-something working stiff. Get with the program.

Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica

Experts rate Wikipedia's accuracy higher than non-experts

Reliability_of_Wikipedia

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Wheylous — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 06:09:23 GMT

Relevant

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Malachi — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 02:16:31 GMT

The difference is that the iraqis have spent eight years proving that they will do something about it. We didnt pull our troops out of the populated areas because we wanted to. The "anbar awakening" was an "american awakening" to the truth about counterinsurgenc as much as anything else.

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Brutus — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 02:15:57 GMT

Wikipedia is a bad reference!!! Anyone can edit it. Have any others? I'm interested to see a more credible source.

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Clayton — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 01:55:58 GMT

I don't think it's politically acceptable to a majority of Okinawans, either. Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama was forced out of office after he tried to hold a referendum on the Futenma Airbase a few years back. I don't think that happened without the US government's involvement and it wouldn't have happened if the referendum was expected to go the way the US gov't would want it to go.

Clayton -

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Malachi — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 23:13:32 GMT

I agree with everything you said. I would simply add that the political situation in okinawa would be politically unacceptable for the vast majority of iraqis.

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Clayton — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:39:08 GMT

They couldn't get away with extending the stay of the tens of thousands of US troops currently on the ground because it's politically infeasible within the US. There's no way an Iraqi court could try a US military servicemember, just look at what happens on Okinawa all the time.

Clayton -

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Malachi — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:59:57 GMT

You guys are probably going to think that I am crazy but you are both right. The people in power are favorable to us interests, but not so favorable as to continue to tolerate blanket immunity. And the pols know that americans will not tolerate an american servicemember being tried in an iraqi court. So this was the more preferable option to reconquering iraq, because at this stage in the game, iraqi army and iraqi police are doing all the security.

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Clayton — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:21:06 GMT

Nonsense. The Iraqi government is now a vassal of the US, like Japan or most South American countries. We're not "leaving", we're just turning over the grunt work to the locals while we maintain colonial power.

Clayton -

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Anarcho-libertarian — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 20:48:45 GMT

Obama is not leaving because he wants to! This is the big myth. The Iraqi government and people are basically demanding that the US leave. Washington wanted to stay a bit longer and leave a bit of a presence there, but they said NO. Now the administration wants to spin it to make it look like the president did something besides tuck his tail and say OK we'll leave:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/u-s-troop-withdrawal-motivated-by-iraqi-insistence-not-u-s-choice-20111021

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

John James — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:54:48 GMT

Everyone does realize this is the same guy who said all this...right?

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

Clayton — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 05:01:18 GMT

This is all modeled on European colonialism. First you invade and knock out the ruling regime. Then, you stay long enough to prove that you're really in control while you interview the local leadership to figure out who the true sell-outs are so you can appoint them in a brand-new government with unqualified loyalty to you, the colonial power. Then, you train them up an army. Then you pull your big guns out and leave a small contingent of troops under the sole control of the "ambassador" who is really a minder for the loyalist, indigenous governor (to make sure he stays loyal). The small contingent of troops are just there to put down any attempt at a military coup - this might happen if one or more of the generals managed to keep their true, nationalist sympathies a secret while jumping through the colonialist's hoops.

Clayton -

Re: Obama withdrawing troops in Iraq by year's end

A.L.Pruitt — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 03:51:31 GMT

Yes but apparently they are being a little sneaky...

While the White House put the likely number of private security contractors who will be in Iraq come Jan. 1 at 4,000 to 5,000, Senate Armed Services Committee member Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) said Wednesday that she understands that 14,000 of the 17,000 State Department personnel that will be in Iraq after the military withdrawal could be private contractors.

And...

About 160 U.S. soldiers will remain behind under State Department authority to train Iraqi forces along with a small contingent of soldiers guarding the U.S. Embassy. There will also likely be a U.S. special operations presence in Iraq.

But the announcement underscores the gaps that remain between U.S. and Iraqi priorities and political realities.

Earlier this week, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said American and Iraqi officials were continuing discussions that might permit his soldiers to stay beyond the December 31 deadline.

Both sides appeared to leave the door open to revising the arrangement announced on Friday. An Iraqi government advisor said after Obama's remarks that officials from both countries would discuss post-2011 trainers at their next meeting.

Even without soldiers, the U.S. presence will remain substantial. U.S. officials say the embassy in Baghdad, an imposing, fortified complex by the Tigris River in Baghdad's Green Zone, will be the largest in the world.