Current Events

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Al_Gore the Idiot — Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:26:33 GMT

"The thing is, there is no talk of forcing older cars to retrofit this tech so those cars will become more and more valuable over time. Of course, there could be another insidious "Cars for cash" program again aimed at getting older cars off the road."

Well, I like older cars better. They should be easier to work on. You can service much of the things yourself on a car like the 1st generation Miata. To replace an automatic transmission on today's Audi is somethign like $10-15,000.

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

John James — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:44:28 GMT

Al_Gore the Idiot:
A bill already passed by the Senate and set to be rubber stamped by the House would make it mandatory for all new cars in the United States to be fitted with black box data recorders from 2015 onwards.

It's worse than you think.

How the Government Will Takeover Your Car by Remote Control

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Autolykos — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:31:14 GMT

Are you indirectly calling me a liar? Why not do so directly, if you're going to at all?

Also, what exactly, in your opinion, makes arguments over verbiage necessarily "petty" and "[not] very attractive to casual passersby"?

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

HabbaBabba — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:51:03 GMT

I could but I won't. Most on this board, you included, just loves to start all kinds of petty arguments over verbiage. You should probably not. It isn't very attractive to casual passersby. You know what you wrote.

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Autolykos — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:33:37 GMT

I'm sorry but I don't see how I'm being dismissive of these things. Can you please explain?

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

HabbaBabba — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:31:58 GMT

Pretty sure they reported on the entire bill. Alex Jones, on his radio show, specifically, referred me to that passage in the bill.

Even still, it's a little late in the game to be so dismissive of these things.

Edit:
http://www.infowars.com/your-car-set-to-become-part-of-the-internet-of-things/

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Autolykos — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:22:33 GMT

HabbaBabba:

SEC. 53006. VEHICLE-TO-VEHICLE AND VEHICLE-TO-INFRASTRUCTURE COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS DEPLOYMENT.

(a) In General- Chapter 5 of title 23, United States Code, is amended by adding after section 517 (as added by section 53005) the following:

‘Sec. 518. Vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-infrastructure communications systems deployment

‘(a) In General- Not later than 3 years after the date of enactment of this section, the Secretary shall submit a report to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate, the Committee on Environment and Public Works of the Senate, the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives, and the Committee on Energy and Commerce of the House of Representatives that--

‘(1) defines a recommended implementation path for dedicated short-range communications technology and applications;

‘(2) includes guidance on the relationship of the proposed deployment of dedicated short-range communications to the National ITS Architecture and ITS Standards; and

‘(3) ensures competition by not preferencing the use of any particular frequency for vehicle to infrastructure operations.

Yes, speeding tickets. That's what it's all about.

I wasn't saying that speeding tickets are the only possible concern that could ever arise out of the mandatory-EDR provision of "MAP-21". I certainly hope that you don't think I was saying that. Furthermore, what you bring up is tangential to the mandatory-EDR provision itself, which is what Alex Jones and his crew are reporting on, IIRC.

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Autolykos — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:20:09 GMT

Daniel Muffinburg:
Showing cars as blips on a map is already feasible. All you have to do is turn on GPS on your smartphone and mash together some APIs. I suppose the state could simply hack your phone to do this already.

Certainly, but that has nothing to do with EDRs. :P

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Autolykos — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:19:42 GMT

Clayton:
@Autolykos: To an extent, you're right... Alex Jones cna be a bit of a fear-monger and the issues that he is discussing can, at times, take people's attention away from more pressing issues.

We probably would have had black boxes in cars a long time ago if we had a free market in automotive insurance and law. Clearly, being able to give objectively recorded data that shows an order of events would be a massive advantage in a crash dispute. However, the ever-present danger of this data being used against you in ways you could never anticipate clearly outweighs the potential benefits of being able to use the data in your own favor in the event of a crash.

Just as clearly, USG has no interest in helping you clear your name in the event of a crash that wasn't your fault. They have other intentions.

Also, don't forget that these EDRs are particularly pernicious in combination with On-Star-like technology that can maintain constant communication with a central hub. I think the image of the IRS pulling up a map showing a blip on the screen with your VIN # racing toward the border is not actually that far-fetched in 10 years' time.

I agree with all of this. My point was that I don't see much of an immediate danger of people being tracked all the time while driving (except in the case of systems like OnStar).

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Kakugo — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:41:13 GMT

I would once again use my "the State as a drug addict" metaphor once again but what's the point? The real crackheads are the common people, allowing all of this to happen without even a murmur. Smart people will just buy an old car or quietly hack into the tracking device, the rest will just take on to Facebook once the fines start arriving in the mail. Because as Kony 2012 showed Facebook makes all the difference.

On the issue of the IRS passport issue... a coyote will take a Mexican immigrant north of the border for $2500, no questions asked. I am pretty sure they offer return tickets too...

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

HabbaBabba — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 05:26:01 GMT

SEC. 53006. VEHICLE-TO-VEHICLE AND VEHICLE-TO-INFRASTRUCTURE COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEMS DEPLOYMENT.

(a) In General- Chapter 5 of title 23, United States Code, is amended by adding after section 517 (as added by section 53005) the following:

‘Sec. 518. Vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-infrastructure communications systems deployment

‘(a) In General- Not later than 3 years after the date of enactment of this section, the Secretary shall submit a report to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate, the Committee on Environment and Public Works of the Senate, the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives, and the Committee on Energy and Commerce of the House of Representatives that--

‘(1) defines a recommended implementation path for dedicated short-range communications technology and applications;

‘(2) includes guidance on the relationship of the proposed deployment of dedicated short-range communications to the National ITS Architecture and ITS Standards; and

‘(3) ensures competition by not preferencing the use of any particular frequency for vehicle to infrastructure operations.

Yes, speeding tickets. That's what it's all about.

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

DanielMuff — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 04:44:44 GMT

Showing cars as blips on a map is already feasible. All you have to do is turn on GPS on your smartphone and mash together some APIs. I suppose the state could simply hack your phone to do this already.

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Clayton — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:10:33 GMT

Hmm, I see a lucrative market in disabling these monstrosities.

@Autolykos: To an extent, you're right... Alex Jones cna be a bit of a fear-monger and the issues that he is discussing can, at times, take people's attention away from more pressing issues.

We probably would have had black boxes in cars a long time ago if we had a free market in automotive insurance and law. Clearly, being able to give objectively recorded data that shows an order of events would be a massive advantage in a crash dispute. However, the ever-present danger of this data being used against you in ways you could never anticipate clearly outweighs the potential benefits of being able to use the data in your own favor in the event of a crash.

Just as clearly, USG has no interest in helping you clear your name in the event of a crash that wasn't your fault. They have other intentions.

Also, don't forget that these EDRs are particularly pernicious in combination with On-Star-like technology that can maintain constant communication with a central hub. I think the image of the IRS pulling up a map showing a blip on the screen with your VIN # racing toward the border is not actually that far-fetched in 10 years' time.

Clayton -

Re: By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Autolykos — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:00:16 GMT

I certainly don't consider it legitimate to force car manufacturers to include event data recorders (EDRs) in their cars. However, I think the privacy fears from EDRs are currently overstated. The way that Alex Jones and his fellow-travelers depict it, EDRs will be constantly transmitting driving data to police stations and the like. According to a Wikipedia article on the subject (assuming its information is accurate), this depiction is not accurate.

The immediate concern I see with EDRs involves speeding. Speed limits tend to be lower than the actual safe driving speeds, so that local and/or state police departments can issue more speeding tickets and thus raise more revenue. The increasing prevalence of EDR data could exacerbate this.

By 2015, All New Cars Must be Fitted with Black Boxes

Al_Gore the Idiot — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 21:38:51 GMT

A bill already passed by the Senate and set to be rubber stamped by the House would make it mandatory for all new cars in the United States to be fitted with black box data recorders from 2015 onwards.

The legislation, which has been given the Orwellian title ‘Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act’, sailed through the Senate after being heavily promoted by Democrats Harry Reid and Barbara Boxer and is also expected to pass the Republican-controlled House.

Given the fact that the same bill also includes a controversial provision that would empower the IRS to revoke passports of citizens merely accused of owing over $50,000 in back taxes, stripping them of their mobility rights, could the mandatory black boxes or a similar technology be used for the same purpose?

http://www.infowars.com/mandatory-big-brother-black-boxes-in-all-new-cars-from-2015/