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Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

John Ess — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:35:30 GMT

It seems to me that even Green foreign policy would devolve into a type of paternalism and imperialism. Check out her views on Israel/Palestine situation.

She seems to take a pretty aggressive stance on this, as well as opening the door for 'humanitarian' wars in the middle-east.

"On taking office, I will put all parties on notice – including the Israeli government, the Palestinian Authority, and the Hamas administration in Gaza – that future U.S. support will depend on respect for human rights and compliance with international law... Failure by any party to demonstrate sufficient material progress will result in the end of U.S. military and economic aid to that party."

This is basically the same foreign policy we use on others: obey or else.

" Material progress will be understood to include... disarmament of all non-state militias."

Gee, so they can submit to authority more easily.

"Consistency in U.S. policy regarding human rights and international law will begin, but not end, with Palestine and Israel. I will apply this same approach to other nations, such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Yemen, among others. I will also ensure that the United States begins to honor its obligations to protect human rights"

Basically, another blank check to 'approach nations' all over the globe like the current policy. This is the dead give away that the hippies will justify their own endless series of wars in the middle-east. These are not peaceful hippies. Doesn't she know the US gives billions in aid to all of three of those Arab nations? And that's why they exist.

The approach is like Obama's: make it seem more humane, but keep killing.

"Material progress will be understood to include but not be limited to an end to the discriminatory apartheid policies within the state of Israel, the removal of the Separation Wall"

Without the wall and the apartheid discrimination, there is no Israel. Because Israel's sole goal is for only Jews to be worthy, and for there to be no reconciliation with Arabs. This is by definition of having a Jewish supremacist state. The wall was built to coerce that situation. But she can't just go ahead and say that. Probably for the same reason Gary Johnson can't, sadly. But at least Johnson for the most part resists the urge towards involvement in the middle-east hornet's nest.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Anenome — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:15:04 GMT

John Ess:

She supports bailing out auto companies. Of course, as long as the companies then get more rules from the state.

Just because she supports unions. If unions lose influence, the left does as well, as the unions funnel stupid amounts of money to them.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

John Ess — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:00:12 GMT

She supports bailing out auto companies. Of course, as long as the companies then get more rules from the state.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Anenome — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:57:12 GMT

'Green' is all about using crisis to create political will.

If you have an excuse that sounds good, people will let you violate the rights of other people. That's all it boils down to.

If you say that the oceans are going to rise 20 feet and we're all going to die unless we do x, y, and z statist policies, then people feel like they have their back to a wall, and the pragmatists who buy the premise will feel they have no choice.

It's all bunk of course. Now it's the green crisis. Previously it was the Red scare. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Increasingly it's going to be the financial crisis.

There's only one thing that connects all these crises: they're government created, and the supposed solution is more government.

Conflict of interest anyone?

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Kelvin Silva — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:48:32 GMT

The only thing we might agree with her is not bailing out companies.

It feels scary to even hear her mug speak.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

John Ess — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:46:16 GMT

"She advocates the state doing stuff to appease the workers, mainly state welfare, that's why you say she's the "most statist", right?"

No. She is the most statist because her policies imply more state power than the other 2012 candidates. Sometimes for reasons she understands, and other times for reasons she doesn't. It has nothing to do with workers or welfare.

All of what I said above in the original post should be understood the same, whether it is anarcho-syndicalists or market anarchists.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Malachi — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:59:51 GMT

So the wealthy are not living, breathing, human beings?

"The wealthy are reptilians" is the implied message, I suppose.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Aristophanes — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:40:30 GMT

Here is a short refutation and expounding of some of the tenets of the "New Geen Deal"

She is basing her policies off of some scholar's economics book. It is horrendous.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Neodoxy — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:39:53 GMT

Lol you forgot about

"Revoke corporate personhood by amending our Constitution to make clear that corporations are not persons and money is not speech. Those rights belong to living, breathing human beings - not to business entities controlled by the wealthy."

So the wealthy are not living, breathing, human beings?

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Malachi — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:37:24 GMT

Banning of all non-government speech about politics. "Money is not speech", they say.

sure, the press is "free" but they cant buy paper or ink. Or a printing press.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

Neodoxy — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:24:32 GMT

Lol that whole thing is so absolutely pure left that it's insane.

"Every reform that state does under pressure from the people, and not from groups wanting to exploit people is a good reform."

Isn't anyone who wants to perform a plan which will increase taxes and spending exploiting other people. And who are the people?

"She advocates the state doing stuff to appease the workers, mainly state welfare, that's why you say she's the "most statist", right?"

Yea. Around here increasing the power of the state and the influence that it has over people's lives is pretty generally agreed upon as being considered relatively in the vicinity of being just a tad statist.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

stsoc — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:53:57 GMT

Every reform that state does under pressure from the people, and not from groups wanting to exploit people is a good reform.

Second sentence had nothing to do with what I wrote.

She advocates the state doing stuff to appease the workers, mainly state welfare, that's why you say she's the "most statist", right?

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

John Ess — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:33:59 GMT

"Everything reform that state does under pressure from the people, and from group wanting to exploit people is a good reform. State welfare is not good, but it's better then privatization."

First sentence makes no sense. Unless you're trying to make Noam Chomky's brain explode through linguistic trickery.

Second sentence had nothing to do with what I wrote.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

SkepticalMetal — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:36:23 GMT

I stopped taking Chomsky seriously quite a long time ago.

Re: Chomsky backs most statist candidate

stsoc — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:35:23 GMT

Every reform that state does under pressure from the people, and not from groups wanting to exploit people is a good reform. State welfare is not good, but it's better then privatization.

everyone knows his claim to "anarchy" is just for shock value, he is an authoritarian totalitarian to the core.

Only capitalists "know" that.