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Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

ricarpe — Sat, 06 Apr 2013 18:03:34 GMT

@ Aristophanes:

1. I didn't call Ron Paul anything, I was just trying to get people to define some terms that they are throwing around.

2. I did study politics. I have a BA in Political Science, a BA in Economics and a Certificate in Political Economy.

3. I am in grad school. I'm currently enrolled in a part-time MS in Applied Economics program.

4. I just celebrated my 35th birthday.

5. Sorry for the internet necromancy, I have been busy the past few weeks.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

zg7666 — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 23:53:22 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbBngknGk54

True News - Cyprus Bank Thefts!

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Ralph Fucetola — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:06:08 GMT

Practically all that's left of manufacturing in America goes on in the Prison Industry Gulag. More and more imprisoned "lower class" men working cheap. More prisoners in America than anywhere else on Earth.

Othe the other hand, if you are part of the underclass and you join the military (not much different from the PIG) you will be drugged and used until thrown away (more US soldiers, by far, die from suicide than battle).

Well, the Thirteenth Amendment apparently did not outlaw slavery; it just nationalized it. That's what the military and the PIG are all about...

And they call this a "capitalist" country!

Whether, as other commenters questioned, Ron Paul is a "neoliberal" or a libertarian, he has been correct about so much, including this:

"All empires end badly."

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Kakugo — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:08:57 GMT

Let's add another twist to the story. Russian companies, banks and citizens have been using Cyprus as a banking hub for their transactions inside the EU. How much do they stand to lose? About 32 billion euro, which is over three times the bailout. The Russians are obviously enthusiatic about this, and they have already called the Cypriot Minister of Finance to Moscow for "consultations". Now, Russia has been so far very generous to Cyprus. Apart from billions worth in bank accounts (which generated income in form of taxes), the Russian government gave Cyprus a 2,5 billion "emergency loan" in 2011. The EU (seriously, do these guys ever know when to quit?) have been lobbying long and hard for Moscow not to only to lend more money, but to lower interest rates. I suspect Mother Russia's patience is wearing thin at this point.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Blargg — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 04:04:46 GMT

The first two posts in this thread are off-topic. Maybe they can be given their own thread.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Consumariat — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:55:28 GMT

They aren't the same. They're related, of course, but not the same.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Aristophanes — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:52:06 GMT

the IR theory encompasses the economic doctrine. In fact, it is incorporated into the political anaylsis. Saying they are not the same is misleading. They are related, intimately. As per the Ron Paul reference, the split in the IR theory and the economic doctrine is slim and Ron Paul can easily straddle both without committing to either. Realists are the more naked nationalist mercanitlists. Liberals are the more international mercantilists. (Good ) IR theories don't forget either aspect. Good economic theories shouldn't either.

Viva la Politicia Oeconomia

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Consumariat — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:47:15 GMT

Neoliberalism (international relations)

Neoliberalism

Corrupted neoliberalism

Don't blame me, blame academics and their obsession with terminology.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Consumariat — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:41:37 GMT

Is Neoliberalism just contracting/privatization of industries usually performed by the state (utilities, prisons, etc.)

No, not at all. The contracting out of government functions is just one of the many ways in which profit can be extracted from spheres of public life that previously were closed off to monetisation.

Aristophanes has one thing right when he points out that all these terms are just theoretical constructs, but in terms of the actual practices carried out under the banner of Neoliberal rhetoric, so-called privatisation is one aspect that has played a major role. The ultimate outcome of actually-existing Neoliberalism has been to consolidate class power. The breaking of the unions, the deliberate creation of a pool of unemployed labour, the gradual dismantlement of the welfare state, the imposition of Structural Adjustment Programmes abroad (and now at home under the guise of 'austerity'). A whole host of things such as this have been used as a tool to concentrate wealth into the hands of a small number of people.

Bear in mind, this is not the same as the 'free-market' in the theoretical, stateless sense of the term; it is a reconfiguration of the state in a way that works to the benefit of inevested, private interests. All of the above measures were only made possible because of the heavy hand of the state, not by allowing the state to retreat (Both Thatcher and Reagan increased the size and power of the state, despite claims to the contrary).

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Consumariat — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:25:20 GMT

Actually, what you're talking about there is Neoliberalism and Neorealism as the terms are used in the study of International Relations, as opposed to Political Economy, which is the context in which most anti-capitalists would be applying the term.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Aristophanes — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:01:22 GMT

Wow.

Neo liberalism is opposed to neorealism. Does anyone in here study politics?

Neoliberalism is the advancement of the sovereignty of the MNC through multilateral international organizations (WTO, WHO, IMF, WB, BIS, FAO, etc.) Ron Paul is hard to lump into one of these (NeoL or NeoR) because, in the academic world, he is called a 'non-interventionist' or an 'isolationist' (they mean th same thing, one is pejorative). Neorealists are like Cheney and nationalist politicians. Neoliberals are like Krugman and the internationalist politicians. Neorealists see the world in terms of nation states existing in a state of anarchy. Neoliberals see the world as a giant market that has boundaries in nation-states that should be cooperating instead of working for thier own national interests.

Whoever is calling Ron Paul a neoliberal is ignorant.

The polarizing terms (socialism, democracy, capitalism) are myths. they are idealized theories. Fascism is just an advanced stage of Mercantilism and it is the only economic system that has ever really existed.

Seriously: Does anyone study politics at all? Or do people really just come here to make ignorant assertions?

I was reading about this last night while working on a grad school assignment.

Statements like those I do not buy. The poster that said that is likely about 16-18 years old.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Jargon — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:15:47 GMT

@ Consumariat

Is Neoliberalism just contracting/privatization of industries usually performed by the state (utilities, prisons, etc.)

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Consumariat — Sun, 17 Mar 2013 20:27:24 GMT

An interesting article here on 'the rise of the shadow state', and the growing power of government service companies such as Serco.

Serco, operates: prisons and young offenders institutions. The National Nuclear Laboratory. Transport services like the Docklands Light Railway and Barclays Cycle Hire. Security services for the National Borders Agency, and maintenance services for missile defence systems. Air traffic control services. Leisure services. Management for hospitals and pathology services. Waste collection for local authorities. Education services for local authorities. Government websites.

All for lots of lovely profit, of course.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

Consumariat — Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:48:00 GMT

Then why do the anti-capitalists call Ron Paul a neoliberal?

Well firstly I think it's important to understand Neoliberalism, not simply on theoretical terms as advocating 'free-markets' and anti-state ideals, but as a political project with a historical record of usurping state functions under the guise of 'privatisation', only to maintain those power structures in ways that are not subject to democratic accountibility. In other words, the contracting-out of government functions to Quangos and private entities. It's much larger than this, of course, and is in my view a political project designed to reinforce the power of a dominant class.

On the issue of whether or not anti-capitalists are correct in labling Ron Paul a Neoliberal, I could not comment as I am not familiar with his views enough to say. By the way, are you equating Neoliberalism with Capitalism? Are you equating Capitalism with free-markets in their idealised form? Just so we don't end up talking past each other.

Re: Breaking News: Cyprus "Bailout" Includes Forced Depositor "Investment" in Bailout Banks

ricarpe — Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:44:37 GMT

DanielMuff:
Consumariat:

This isn't 'Socialism' or 'Fascism'. It's just Neoliberalism.

Then why do the anti-capitalists call Ron Paul a neoliberal?

I think an explanation of the use of the term "neoliberalism" is in order may be in order.

I was reading about this last night while working on a grad school assignment. Cypriot banks are locking down accounts to block fund transfers within and out of the EU zone.