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Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:53:36 GMT

Dondoolee:
If for whatever fantastic reason we had to in order to survive, we would be irrational not to, we are biologically driven to survive.

dude we are rational because we can reason about the means we can use to achieve our ends. we can not make any claims for the rationality of our ends, the concept is meaningless. peoples ends often look absurd to each other. dont look for rationality in the ends...survival isnt necessarily a rational end, its either someones prime end or not. most people its not survival at all costs as they accept risks with their lives for varous other benefits.

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

Juan — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:48:03 GMT

Does the NAP apply to pets owned by aliens ?

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

William — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:23:50 GMT

Stranger:

Dondoolee:

Or to make matters even more crazy, if the humans had to colonize a planet in order to survive, and our only form of survival would be killing and eating cute rational fuzzy Ewoks in order to survive, I think that is not unantural, not preferable sure, but not wholley evil

If they are rational, we don't have to kill them.

If for whatever fantastic reason we had to in order to survive, we would be irrational not to, we are biologically driven to survive.

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

William — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:21:42 GMT

ama gi:

Dondoolee:
But, to take the situation in the extreme, if for some reason the human species had to colonize that planet to survive or die would that be acceptable to kill?

Why couldn't you purchase a plot of land from the inhabitants?

Because they are unwilling to sell, they may have a completley different culture from us that is incompatible with our forms of barter, there can only be so many of them existing on the planet for them not to be toxic to us, etc. It's hard to really talk about alternative rational lifeforms would be my main point though, too little knowledge too many variables. If we were vampires who could only live off the blood of humans we killed would we be bad?

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

Stranger — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:52:19 GMT

Dondoolee:

Or to make matters even more crazy, if the humans had to colonize a planet in order to survive, and our only form of survival would be killing and eating cute rational fuzzy Ewoks in order to survive, I think that is not unantural, not preferable sure, but not wholley evil

If they are rational, we don't have to kill them.

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

ama gi — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:18:26 GMT

Dondoolee:
But, to take the situation in the extreme, if for some reason the human species had to colonize that planet to survive or die would that be acceptable to kill?

Why couldn't you purchase a plot of land from the inhabitants?

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

ama gi — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:15:54 GMT

nazgulnarsil:
we can't ignore the fact that many possible intelligences would not place any value on self determination and would therefore be coercive from our definition.

I don't care, as long as they don't coerce us!

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

William — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:10:14 GMT

Or to make matters even more crazy, if the humans had to colonize a planet in order to survive, and our only form of survival would be killing and eating cute rational fuzzy Ewoks in order to survive, I think that is not unantural, not preferable sure, but not wholley evil

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

William — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:06:29 GMT

I don't know if you could consider kiling a species that is deadly to you as technically evil, it really does seem to follow "natural law" (whatever that is) to do so.

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:06:26 GMT

no, it would be immoral, like a starving man coming to my home and stealing all my food .

someone more morally minded than self centered *a spock perhaps?* might choose to starve rather than violate NAP if they could not find charity.

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

William — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:03:57 GMT

I never mentioned colonizing thier inhabited planets. But, to take the situation in the extreme, if for some reason the human species had to colonize that planet to survive or die would that be acceptable to kill? It would certainly seem like a natural reaction, that is what species do. Either way it's not really worth thinking too much about, until it occurs.

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

Stranger — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:00:23 GMT

http://www.quebecoislibre.org/05/051015-16.htm

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:23:21 GMT

socialist aliens !

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

nazgulnarsil — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:21:55 GMT

we can't ignore the fact that many possible intelligences would not place any value on self determination and would therefore be coercive from our definition.

Re: does NAP apply to extra-terrestrials

ama gi — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:27:02 GMT

Dondoolee:
If a peacful alien lifeform was toxic to us just to be around, killing it would be method of survival and perfectly natural I would think.

no, you would have to stay off its planet/respect its property. If a toxic alien landed on your planet, then you could kill it.