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Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Inquisitor — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:56:53 GMT

Torsten thanks for the information. Focusing on Logic has been one of my priorities.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Torsten — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:24:36 GMT

Possibly they like mathematics, since this is easier to teach and test.

Inquisitor:
Regarding philosophy, I will be sticking mostly to matters of epistemology, Enlightenment and some classical contintental philosophy, ethics and the like. One of the courses will have a component on hermeneutics and post-modernism, which is fine, since I want to better understand them so as to be able to critique them.

Hermeneutics you can include as long this is related to people like Schleyermacher and even Nietzsche or Heidegger (It's really only about interpreting texts). The last two are what postmordernists like Derrida and Foucault base their stuff on. They are not that original, what lets them look smart is their skill in playing with words and shifting the meanings, cicumventing the rules of logic and the like.They'll insist that you already applied (unproven) value judgements in your argument and that is why it must be flawed. A good foundation in formal and informa logic, will be very helpful, when dealing with these people. All they usually do succeed is, is to get you into a more lengthy and more complex argument wasting your time. Most people will throw the towel then and that's makes their "philosophy" so attractive to halfwitted academics, since they believe that this means they've won the debate.

I always struggled with academia since on the one hand one has biased teachers (who'll find fault with your work), on the other hand they almost only can measure and will look at what "knowledge"/information you can repreduce in a test or assignment. There is not much space for originality or creative thought. So the average people are the ones performing best at school or in university. Your brightest 5% will actually struggle very often those days.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

msun641 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:21:09 GMT

Inquisitor's post really highlight my own difficulties in coming to terms with my predilection for Austrian thinking.

I have no doubt I could thrive in a PhD environment with a heavy mathematical flair; I've finished two courses in multivariable calculus and haven't really met a concept that's been difficult to grasp.

However, my love of economics stems not from tinkering with equations, but discovering fundamental (but not so obvious) truths.

I have no desire to pursue the graduate level, math-oriented economics at most major universities, but I feel that the Austrian School really hasn't gotten its act together (please tell me that I'm wrong!) in the sense of comprehensive offerings aimed at the up and coming generation of undergraduates.

So far, I've heard of Austrian professors at Harvard, NYU, and GMU (any other big names?). I really do enjoy economics, and I'll probably continue to read Mises, Rothbard, Kirzner, et. al well into college.

But it seems as though other fields have far greater research opportunities, faculty resources, and a sense of stability in the undergraduate experience that lends itself more to further study.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Inquisitor — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:37:01 GMT

Torsten, I agree that some of the mathematics is valid - I even believe Austrians would do well to employ mathematical tools as a further extension of praxeology. However, I might as well be doing a course in applied mathematics as opposed to economics. I'd rather study the topic in my own time, and devote more time to Austrian economics, as well as neoclassical economics.

Regarding philosophy, I will be sticking mostly to matters of epistemology, Enlightenment and some classical contintental philosophy, ethics and the like. One of the courses will have a component on hermeneutics and post-modernism, which is fine, since I want to better understand them so as to be able to critique them. My plan is to do a JD at GMU or NYU, or even Harvard, in the USA afterwards, so employment prospects aren't something I'm concerned about.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Torsten — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:19:15 GMT

Inquisitor:
I am considering switching to a Philosophy degree from neoclassical economics.

Some of the mathematical issues I consider valid, but I undertand your grief, if this goes over the top. Philosophy is also a very broad field. So one should check beforehand what they have on the syllabus. Classical and Enlightenment Philosophy should however be a good choice. One ought to stay away from most that is remotely "postmodern"

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Inquisitor — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 04:20:47 GMT

I am considering switching to a Philosophy degree from neoclassical economics. I've had enough of the pseudo-mathematical silliness involved. Studying Austrian econ in my private time will be far more constructive.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Ian Swift — Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:38:52 GMT

I thought I'd give you guys a quick update. Thanks for all the responses. It was actually the discussion here of "the open university" that lead me to my final search. At this point, I think I'm going to go to a college with a focus on individual research, the two schools I've noted most are Marlboro College, and Johns Hopkins University. Worst case scenario I'm going to probably go to an in-state school and double major in history and economics. What I'm going to do though is go to a school where Econ is listed as a liberal art and not a business. I get a feeling that most places "business" will get me a monetarian teacher. Yuch.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

measles — Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:41:34 GMT

As a senior in college, I understand where you're coming from. My undergraduate education has been laughable at times, yet stimulating here and there. Honestly, I can't wait to get into grad school and an environment where critical thinking and discussion are encouraged. (Mind you, I'm a 27-year-old undergrad; I can't imagine how it would feel to be this way at 18.) At the same time, I have issues with the fact that I would like to become an educator, but not at the university level, and I doubt I will be able to teach anywhere that allows the type of critical thinking and discourse that I want to be a part of the education I deliver.

My recommendation: get a degree. Do it now, before you get older and smarter and are that much more seperated from your peers. It is wise to be choosy about where you go to school, and once you get there you may have to suffer through four years of not being chalenged enough. But getting a degree, especially for an intellectual, is not just about finding a job, but about getting the credentials required to get people to listen to your ideas.

Some universities do allow accelerated programs and independent studies, so you should do research on those. Just a warning, though: it seems as if more schools today care about their ratings than the quality of education they provide. Therefore, a higher ranked school doesn't mean a better school, and when you leave college and enter the job market, it is your interview process and your articulation of your ideas that matters most. Don't give up hope, the world needs intellectuals like you.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

msun641 — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:58:07 GMT

I'm not sure what kind of AP class you are in, but AP classes in most classrooms around America use a Keynesian framework, which I'm pretty sure is still ordinal utility theory (correct me if I'm wrong). In our class, we simply trudge through Baumol and Blinder's Economics, word-by-word as our teacher knows almost nothing outside of the basics.

Also, face it: you will have an extraordinarily small chance of getting published without credentials.

You may do research on your own time now, but you need to be able to prove it. And the best way to do that is with a degree.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Physiocrat — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:09:46 GMT

I would expect he would be a quasi libertarian such as Minford and Milton Friedman. I expect he would advocate state control of the money supply, the provision of public goods and a minimum welfare state; I'm not sure about this although it is unlikely to come through massively except in relation inflation and unemployment: the to monoliths of macro with no economics.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Inquisitor — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:47:08 GMT

Do you know perhaps what Peel's stance towards free markets is? My macroeconomics professor last year, Gerry Steele, was an Austrian, so he injected quite a bit of pro-market commentary into his teachings.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Physiocrat — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:06:39 GMT

Inquisitor, I know David Peel does this years macro and I believe he will do some of next years in which you will do something similar to what I described. I have a friend in the third year doing Economics at Lancaster so I have a pretty decent idea of what is going on.

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Anonymous Coward — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 04:39:43 GMT

I would recommend going to get a degree over trying to go the self study route even if you waste it like I did. Don't follow my model of figuring out what you're good at so you don't have to study hard enough to affect your partying though. Woo Hoo, Humboldt State.

As for high school, that was as pointless as community college but in California they have a deal where if you complete all your pre-reqs there the state universities have to take you unless it was an impacted program. This means even a slacker like myself with two years of high school can go get themselves a worthless art history bachelors degree.

I would recommend a smaller school, I was talking to my sister the other day (UCLA) and she's convinced I got a better education at Humboldt because you can actually interact with instructors who don't consider teaching as a distraction to their real job as researchers. She had classes with 500 people while my largest was maybe 50 for an upper division general ed class.

Or the Open University as was suggested, I was looking into that and as soon as I can scrape up some extra cash...

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Inquisitor — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:29:00 GMT

Most universities want you to have done undegraduate courses in econometrics, micro and macroeconomics and so on. It's very difficult to avoid a Bs in Economics if you want to go on further.

Physiocrat, I think he'll actually be teaching on my macro course this year. :)

Re: High School Academics versus My Real Studies

Solid_Choke — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:10:35 GMT

If I was starting school over with the goal of getting a Economics Ph.D. I would double major in Mathematics and Philosophy. IMO that would be a much better base for graduate econ than just an economics B.S.