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Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

William — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 06:54:05 GMT

Ortega y Gasset

Revolt of the Masses should be read by everyone

Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

edavismail — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 06:43:18 GMT

Izzy:

I think the Austrian School can be very existentialist.

I don't think it's pure coincidence that Sartre would suggest a core existentialist notion--that we are our choices--and I think this is because he inherited the subjective theory of value from the Brentano (Menger) tradition. Without doubt, the existentialists had an implicit methodological individualism as well. I agree with those who say that Sartre's Being and Nothingness was a "brilliant misunderstanding" of Heidegger, and this early work, before Sartre's attempt to integrate Marxism, would probably yield some insights for an Austrian. Sartre's later work likely had a lot trouble partly due to the inherent conflict between the subjective theory of value and the labor theory of value.

Despite his evident Naziism, the current intellectual scene takes Heidegger much more seriously than Sartre, and along those lines, I think Being and Time can yield a lot of insights, not the least because Heidegger's deep analysis of how we relate to equipment and live purposefully though coping. Heidegger had similar neo-Kantian influences to Mises and Weber, and he also stands within the Brentano tradition, so there is much to ponder. I also think that research into others like the early Paul Ricoeur and Ortega y Gasset could yield good things. Ricoeur, for example, addressed the "human action" side of phenomenology in a similar way to Alfred Schutz.

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/24094/414485.aspx#414485

Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

Wesker1982 — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 19:37:38 GMT

I recently went through a pretty bad existential depression episode. Basically +1 to Nitroadict's post lol.

This book Man's Search for Meaning helped a bit. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807014273/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=080701429X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1SZEAJA42K3EWBE4T4AR

IIRC existential depression was what Tony Soprano's son suffered from in the TV series. That was all I ever heard about it in the mainstream, it seems to be relatively unexplored.

That article Nitro posted explained me as a child very accurately. I remember being in gradeschool thinking "wtf why should I have to be here, this is crazy" and then in middleschool "how is this not apparent to everyone that this is a prison!" etc. It caused me to be depressed on and off throughout my childhood and teenage years but I was able to cope with it by rebelling (dropping out of highschool, punk rocker mohawk etc.) and drinking a lot. The shame is that when people see children and teenagers acting this way they just brush it off as a lack of discipline or whatever and try to get them on ADHD meds. I think that people see it as mindless rebellion when a lot of the times its for the reasons explained in the article, its too bad.

Maybe it is just a coincidence but recently I had a pretty bad episode that seemed to correlate directly with learning about Austrian Economics . I was depressed on and off growing up but recently it felt like everytime I had an "AH HA!" moment in my understanding of AE it would be matched at the same time by a feeling of hopelessness in humanity.

I feel alright right now though because I have been busy planning my wedding. I just hope those feelings don't come back in the future.

Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

William — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:35:31 GMT

With Izzy's post in mind that the word is a bit "shakey" to use and the "existentialists" that are worth reading probably wouldn't be called existentialists; I think my familiarity with Stirner (who was pre Kierkegaard) has really set the template as to how I relate to intersubjective studies. It is probably the "mindset" I use when thinking about such things for better or worse. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that was why I found an unexpected interest in Mises.

Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

Isaac "Izzy" Marmolejo — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:22:31 GMT

funny how you bring this up because I major in econ and I minor in philosophy, with strong emphasis in Existentialism

I think the Austrian School can be very existentialist. But one must first explain what existentialism means. If we look at Existentialism in the eyes of Sartre, then, no, Austrian Economics is not consistent with the philosophy. But if one looks at existentialism in the eyes of Kierkegaard and Nietzsche, then yes, I can see an influence that existentialism has on the Austrian School. One must take in consideration that Existentialism is not a proper school of Philosophy, it is only a movement. Existentialist philosophers are widely diverse: there are Existentialists that are highly religious ( Kierkegaard), some are highly anti religion (Nietzsche, Sartre), some are fascist ( Heideggar) some are Marxist (Sartre), some are very anti state (Nietzsche, Camus). Nevertheless, calling Kierkegaard (arguably the first Existentialist), Nietzsche, or Camus existentialist is a whole different debate because if we imply their philosophy, they would all reject the very label. Camus actually wrote strongly against Existentialism. Kierkegaard would reject the label because the label would have made him feel less of an individual and belonging to a group, which his philosophy strongly encouraged him to break away from the group! and Nietzsche would reject the label, for about the same reasons Kierkegaard would reject it. Sartre is the only one, out of the existentialist philosophers mentioned, that would consider himself existentialist. (Sartre was actually the person to coin the phrase existentialism)

But over all, what existentialism means to me is this: that individuals must take responsibility for their actions and there are no excuses for our actions, realizing the irrational aspects of life, and expressing importance of existence.

I think a very good source in learning Existentialism is an audio by Robert Solomon, No Excuses: Existentialism and the Life of Meaning. If you send me an email, I can send you the outline of Solomon's audio via pdf file

Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

edavismail — Sun, 17 Apr 2011 16:02:26 GMT

Wolfgang Grassl and Barry Smith (eds.) Austrian Economics, "The Second Austrian School of Value Theory" shows how the early phenomenological or pre-phenomenological philosophers embraced the subjective theory of value that originated from the Austrian economists. It takes a small leap from there to the existentialists. Alfred Schutz, the founder of phenomenological sociology, was well aware of Heidegger's Being and Time as well as the important works of Max Scheler. Schutz was a regular attendant of the Mises Circle. Scholars have brought out the intimate ties between the Austrian economists and the Brentano tradition in philosophy, and Don Lavoie and others tried to bring out the ties between Gadamer and Hayek (ironically, only in method, and not so much historically), but few have brought out the intellectual ties between existentialism and the Austrian School.

Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

Inquisitor — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:14:49 GMT

I'm not familiar with existentialist philosophy, but what features of it does Austrian economics share?

Within the context of philosophy of science the Austrian school adheres to methodological individualism and a causal-realist approach.

Re: Existentialism & Austrian Economics

Nitroadict — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:15:21 GMT

I'm still pretty green (bad dum bum) when it comes to economics, especially austrian economics, but I do feel like there was a definite connnection and/or correleation concerning my own existiential depression (http://www.sengifted.org/articles_counseling/Webb_ExistentialDepressionInGiftedIndividuals.pdf) and the gradual realization of certain Libertarian concepts, as well as subsequent self-edcuation concerning Libertarianism.

Despite being new towards praxeology, I can also see a bit of a link to it. I don't think it's out of the question for other's also arriving at a similar conclusion.

Existentialism & Austrian Economics

SirJDKnightCroix — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:24:11 GMT

I heard Professor Salerno speak of a connection between existentialism and Austrian Economics. Then my Economics 101 professor told me that he didn't like Austrians because they were existential. It's odd, because although I consider myself an existentialist and an Austrian, I never realized the link...I know it has vague similareties because of praxeology and the Austrians manner of methodological individualism, but still..