General

Re: BBC news - security agencies in Rio de Janeiro

gussosa — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:07:32 GMT

RiflesReady:
It seems like this could be a real pickle for the authorities. I imagine that if the so-called militias gain control over too much turf, you'll see something like a military response to drive them out. Which is just thicker than momma's gravy with...hell I can't even think of the right words. In the end, the state will drive off the militias, thus showing that they had the power all along; then say "job well done" as the drug cartels reoccupy lost ground.

At first I thought "Man, did you really have to ruin the cake for us?" But you raise an interesting point. Perhaps you lost something of the article. BBC says the militias are formed by off-duty and retired cops and firemen, and the regular police says it is hard to deal with the corruption of their mates. My guess is the militians are honest cops and firemen who want to get done the job their colleagues refuse to do. Id est, the corrupt cops are the ones who are NOT in the militias.

Anyway, it would be (almost) impossible to take the militias out of the favelas if the militians are able to know in advance every movement the police does. Perhaps they would try an open military attack on the favelas, but that would do nothing. The militians would just retreat and maybe even scout their territories as cops looking for the militians. After all has settled, they would start again.

The real strength of this militias is that they can play both sides, depending of the situation.

This is not some wild social experiment designed by a nutty philosopher; it is an spontaneous, growing and strong movement of people taking the responsability for their own safety. Read the article again:

Militias have been around for some time, but analysts believe the number has been growing in recent years, while the authorities insist they are trying to deal with the threat.

For me this means they have been around for decades but only now they have reached a critical mass making it impossible for the government to deny the existence of these organizations.

As long as they don't make a try on secession, I think we are going to see them growing for many many years more.

Re: BBC news - security agencies in Rio de Janeiro

RiflesReady — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:39:24 GMT

It seems like this could be a real pickle for the authorities. I imagine that if the so-called militias gain control over too much turf, you'll see something like a military response to drive them out. Which is just thicker than momma's gravy with...hell I can't even think of the right words. In the end, the state will drive off the militias, thus showing that they had the power all along; then say "job well done" as the drug cartels reoccupy lost ground.

When examining the actions of government, everything seems zero-sum.

Re: BBC news - security agencies in Rio de Janeiro

Bostwick — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:49:10 GMT

But the authorities and other observers say militias control communities using fear and violence, demanding payments for services such as gas and cable TV, even at times controlling access to the internet.

The horror, the horror.

Re: BBC news - security agencies in Rio de Janeiro

Nitroadict — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:58:02 GMT

I think we're going to see more of this in the coming decade or so, honestly, where oppressive and/or neglient governments are being competed against with citizen run militas providing better protection, particularly in seemingly 3rd & 2nd world countries (the status of such labels beginning to shift due to globalism, as well).

All the while, the line between citizen & soldier becomes blurred but re-focused; I see this as citizens waking up to the sense of self-resposibility and vigilance required for true freedom. I wouldn't be surprised if people from the protected communities began to see the milita as a way of life and/orincome, and thus, train to eventually join the ranks to protect their own village, furthering the militas as legitamate.

I'm actually further surprised (pleasently) that even one politican is pointing out that legalising these militas would be a good thing.

But alas, the spin of the mainstream will be there to scare the sh*t out of people from thinking about alternatives to the current establishments. I can't wait for sub-internet's and alternate internets to pop up to help to further alleviate this problem and promote needed discussion, for stories such as this.

Re: BBC news - security agencies in Rio de Janeiro

Inquisitor — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:16:59 GMT

These aren't exactly security agencies, but they are serving a good purpose. The government and its police don't like this? F*ck 'em say I. They have the audacity to complain about the things these militias do when they do exactly the same, if not worse. It's like the government of South Africa, whining about how its citizens trust private firms for security purposes more than they trust it. Boo-frikkin-hoo.

BBC news - security agencies in Rio de Janeiro

gussosa — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:10:20 GMT

I felt so excited reading this news report.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7283640.stm

Of course the police says the militias are evil (what else they could say?), but fortunately there is at least one politician that proposes to legalize them.

IMO, if they can pacify the brutal favelas, I have no problem with them acting as feudal lords. In the future, with more competition among rival militias, things will settle for better.