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Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Novus Zarathustra — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:50:27 GMT

I'm interested in building some models, are there any I should look into buying? Or nice display models to do with Physics,Astronomy or Calc?

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Caley McKibbin — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:41:35 GMT

The calculation problem is only a problem in the case of values. The universe is more of a deciphering complexity problem.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

abskebabs — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:23:06 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:

Or, easy to understand books on Physics, and all its important theories.

This doesn't cover the 20th century, but believe me that's still a hell of a lot. Actually along with Human Action and another book I think it's been the most influential in my intellectual development:

Mathematics and the Physical World by Morris Kline

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Novus Zarathustra — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 04:02:00 GMT

Additionally, what are some good books to read on the Natural Sciences? something intellectually stimulating, or presents important theories/problems really well.

Or, easy to understand books on Physics, and all its important theories.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Caley McKibbin — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:47:02 GMT

Stranger:

You kids need to read A New Kind of Science.

That helps with evolution.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Stranger — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:31:08 GMT

You kids need to read A New Kind of Science.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Caley McKibbin — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:23:30 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:

I was going to read Stephen Hawking's "A History of Time", it is supposed to explain the major physics of concepts without being math heavy at all.

Considering that I read it when I was 11, that is a safe assessment.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

johnclonts — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:11:05 GMT

Smiling Dave:

Seems to me that is a good example of basic difference between praxeology vs natural sciences.

I don't understand what you mean, could you kindly explain?

My point was that publishing the results ( that statistically 300 people will die on the road) will likely cause drivers to act differently than they would otherwise, thus changing the basis upon which the results were computed. This is different than in the natural sciences. Because Humans Act. Trees don't act, projectiles don't act, etc.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

baxter — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:46:07 GMT

>I was going to suggest, that I really don't see how you can apply the same mathematical formulas to collectively explain the behavior of the universe and such

Well, you CAN explain the universe reliably with math. At least, we can do a lot now (like creating microchips and fusion weapons) and we keep getting better. My guess is that math is so effective because the universe literally is nothing more than a mathematical system (set of axioms). In practice, though, things (like with psychology, economics, sociology climatology, medicine) cannot be "solved" with math or physics. There are too many variables, too much interaction, and too many measurements that would have to be made to obtain precise solutions. You can't practically measure the state of every atom or neuron in a human brain and predict it's behavior computationally; you have to use things like praxeology instead. This is a limitation of mankind and not a limitation of mathematics: in Human Action, even Mises admits the possibility that some kind of superbeing could precisely predict the behavior of a man.

>It didn't even start out that way, it started out as Metaphysics which was not math heavy.

I don't know at all what you mean by "Metaphysics".

>I was going to read Stephen Hawking's "A History of Time", it is supposed to explain the major physics of concepts without being math heavy at all.

If you want an enjoyable read, I suggest The Five Ages of the Universe. It talks about real science but also does some fun stuff like conjecture what the universe will be like 1 trillion years from now. It gets your imagination going, which Hawking's books do not IMHO.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Stephen — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:42:19 GMT

@ the OP

The physical universe can be represented mathematically b/c it is governed by time-invariant operating causes. Also, hawking is an idiot propped up on stilts.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Novus Zarathustra — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:53:44 GMT

Smiling Dave:
Depends on what the problem is with the road. If its full of curvy slippery dangerous icy spots right next to a cliff, well people know it's dangerous already. The thing probably has a reputation with the locals. But that won't change the basic power of the Math to predict accirately that 300 people will die, but certainly it can't say in advance who they will be.

Depends, if you know which people are the worse drivers and the best drivers, you can use probability.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Smiling Dave — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:01:14 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:

You guys sound so enthusiastic about Math. I was really bored by Math in High School and never really good at it, and now even in College I can't stand it. Is reasoning possible without mathematics?

Of course it is. Winston Churchill was a pretty smart fellow by all accounts, and he had no talent for Math, and indeed hated it.

Malcolm X strikes me as a very intelligent guy, but he had no clue when it came to Math, as his autobiography tells us.

I'm sure the list can be expanded greatly.

One thing is important when it comes to reasoning, and that is finding out what makes up a logical argument, what are the typical logical fallacies, that kind of thing. I personally was very educated by a book called the Art of Clear Thinking, by Rudolf Flesch, though I'm sure there are other sources for that kind of info.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Smiling Dave — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:55:27 GMT

johnclonts:

Smiling Dave:

One example that impressed me is that given the statistics of a dangerous road, one can say something like "There is a 95% chance that there will be at least 300 accidents on this road this year,even though we can't say which car and driver will be in an accident."

Yeah but. To the extent that that prediction is published (say you put a billboard on each end of the road), what effect does that have on the results

Depends on what the problem is with the road. If its full of curvy slippery dangerous icy spots right next to a cliff, well people know it's dangerous already. The thing probably has a reputation with the locals. But that won't change the basic power of the Math to predict accirately that 300 people will die, but certainly it can't say in advance who they will be.

Seems to me that is a good example of basic difference between praxeology vs natural sciences.

I don't understand what you mean, could you kindly explain?

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

Giant_Joe — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:30:51 GMT

For the past few weeks, I've been spending some time thinking about how I can apply free market principles to problems in computer science. Nothing great has come up yet, but I'll figure out something.

Re: Can the economic calculation problem be applied to Physics and Biology?

johnclonts — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:52:35 GMT

Smiling Dave:

One example that impressed me is that given the statistics of a dangerous road, one can say something like "There is a 95% chance that there will be at least 300 accidents on this road this year,even though we can't say which car and driver will be in an accident."

Yeah but. To the extent that that prediction is published (say you put a billboard on each end of the road), what effect does that have on the results

Seems to me that is a good example of basic difference between praxeology vs natural sciences.