General

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Andrew Cain — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:11:30 GMT

Conza88:
http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/8834/227523.aspx

My gosh, that feels like a lifetime ago.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Conza88 — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:02:36 GMT

Thedesolateone:

Snowflake:

bloomj31:
I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time. They're....insane. At least to me they are.
Basically the revleft believe everything we do about free and voluntary association and prosperity but don't understand economics have been taught to hate words like "capitalism".

I'm not sure I agree -- I've heard loads and loads of purge-deniers, great-leap-forward-deniers and Stalinist apologists. They seem to love murder

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/8834/227523.aspx

Sorry just had too... lol

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Isomies — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:47:55 GMT

I've spent the last semester (grad) engaged in mortal combat with the educational establishment. Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating. Without over-generalizing, there is a hell bent bias towards statism across the post-secondary educational world.

The key to success in dealing with such professors and classmates, however, is to be such a knowledgeable, well-read, nuanced, pleasant and enjoyable a speaker and writer that you can demolish their idiotic notions of the glory of government while promoting liberty and keep them smiling simultaneously. Yes, it does involve practice like any good salesman, if that is your calling. I've blown up a few of my own grades for no other reason than saying the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong person. So much for university campi being bastions of intellectual curiosity and freedom.

At any rate, know what the hell is right, be able to write it well and speak it intelligently, and hold your head high because liberty is nothing to be ashamed of.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Thedesolateone — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:33:15 GMT

Snowflake:

bloomj31:
I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time. They're....insane. At least to me they are.
Basically the revleft believe everything we do about free and voluntary association and prosperity but don't understand economics have been taught to hate words like "capitalism".

I'm not sure I agree -- I've heard loads and loads of purge-deniers, great-leap-forward-deniers and Stalinist apologists. They seem to love murder

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Sieben — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:01:01 GMT

bloomj31:
I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time. They're....insane. At least to me they are.

Basically the revleft believe everything we do about free and voluntary association and prosperity but don't understand economics have been taught to hate words like "capitalism".

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Kakugo — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:55:02 GMT

Cheer up, I've been mistaken for a Fascist of all things!

Also remember that all government employees know perfectly well that anything even resembling a free market reform would result in some of their number getting fired or having to work for reduced privileges so they are our worst enemies. Yes, even worse than armchair Socialists.

My advice? Do not waste time debating or contributing to these classes. Do the minimal to pass with decent grades and do not waste your time and strength with these leeches and their disciples. Use your resources to achieve a better, more complete education. As the Brits would say quietly take the p***.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Hard Rain — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:40:24 GMT

The last thing people want to hear are their idealistic statist fantasies being crushed.

I've realized, to most people, the state is like a four year old child with a learning disability; he's completely innocent, his mistakes aren't his fault and if we just love him enough he'll eventually succeed.

"Few men desire freedom; the greater part desire fair masters" - Sallust.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Marko — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:04:17 GMT

LvMIenthusiast:

Is it just me or are we not like that well liked?

I just finished my first semester at college and most of my professors have a blatant disliking for Libertarians and classical liberalism. Ironically, the only professor that actually thoroughly enjoys my contributions in class is the biggest statist I've ever met.

Ah, so this was at a college? Well, what did you expect?

We are not well liked in congress, in colleges and in the military.

We are also not well liked in prisons, re-education camps and concentration camps.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

SilentXtarian — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:36:54 GMT

I haven't really experienced that dislike... but I've been mistaken for a conservative before. In my political ideologies class I took last year I was advocating for personal responsibility when a statist liberal argued that people acted for their own selfish interests. I actually was a Democrat before... so I don't really have the experience of being disliked as great. I don't know. I guess I haven't had that experience before.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

bloomj31 — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:08:15 GMT

Laughing Man:

Or Revleft

I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time. They're....insane. At least to me they are.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Andrew Cain — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:53:46 GMT

fakename:
One has not experienced true dislike until one has debated those of the Richard Dawkins forum or Nathan.

Or Revleft

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

fakename — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:43:44 GMT

LvMIenthusiast:
Is it just me or are we not like that well liked?

One has not experienced true dislike until one has debated those of the Richard Dawkins forum or Nathan.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Andrew Cain — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:01:04 GMT

LvMIenthusiast:
I just finished my first semester at college and most of my professors have a blatant disliking for Libertarians and classical liberalism. Ironically, the only professor that actually thoroughly enjoys my contributions in class is the biggest statist I've ever met.

Libertarians cannot afford to be anything less then the smartest, most tactful proponents of liberty and property. That being said, you will not find education in the halls of college per say. You will certainly be educated in what the opposition thinks but nothing of classical liberalism or libertarianism. You will come to find that this institute is your college, we are your classmates and the faculty our professors. There will come a time when you grow beyond the student motif and become a teacher yourself. Until such a day, bolster your library, train your mind and steel your heart.

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

Conza88 — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:49:20 GMT

LvMIenthusiast:
Is it just me or are we not like that well liked?

Depends on the approach, but obviously there will generally be resistance. People are often invested in it.

That being said:

Conza88:

These may help...

Simply: Itunes store -> freedomain radio -> subscribe to all four volumes -> go to podcasts -> scan the list of undownloaded podcasts and click "get" on ones that interest you.

Freedomain Radio! Volume 1: Introduction - 271
Freedomain Radio! Volume 2: Shows 272 - 561
Freedomain Radio! Volume 3: Shows 562 - 897
Freedomain Radio! Volume 4: Shows 898+

1331 Loving Your Opponent
1327 Debating Tips
1320 Bait'n'Switch - An elemental fogging tactic to watch for in debates...
668 How the Truth Looks to Others - Empathizing with the blind
627 Saving Others Part 1
531 Logical Fallacies Part 1
381: Loving the 'Sheeple'
287: Effective Discussions
268: Debating Freedom Without Solutions Part 1
257: Physics and the Three Laws of Logic
256: Blaming the Citizens for the State
252: Changing a Person's Mind
251: The Subtle Strength of the True Self
249: Libertarians, the 'minimal state' and basic logic
235: Libertarianism for the Young: Freedom for the tweens
192: Curiosity and Personal Relationship
162. Goals and Objectives: The Gun in the Room
158. 10 Arguments for Freedom (Part 1) How to find common ground during libertarian conversations
60. Loving the Lefties
39. The Economics of Conformity
22. They hate us because we're good?
17. Dealing with Non-Libertarians
7. The Argument From Morality (or, how we will win!)

Re: Hostile reception to Libertarians?

bloomj31 — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:38:56 GMT

jmorris84:

Most of the opposition I face is usually along the lines of, "Well, those kinds of things wouldn't work with today's society" or "That's fantasy and doesn't work in the real world."

At some point, they will have to realize that the liberal/statist tactics don't really work either because they cause as many or more problems than they solve.