General

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

Aquila — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 22:00:26 GMT

Nitroadict:

Marko:

bloomj31:

So I just vote for the party that most closely approximates my ideas and has a chance of winning (why I don't vote libertarian.) That's the Republican Party right now.

Republican Party has ideas?

Not until they get the Tea Parties to assimilate into their collective. For now, they are just hoping every old white guy is excited enough to see Palin to haul their oxygen tanks to the polls.

Lol

I just peed a little.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

Nebelwerfer — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:27:23 GMT

As people have been saying, Republicans really hurt libertarians, because they falsely represent capitalism and free markets. Every time I throw out an argument, I have some sort of response talking about how free markets failed under Reagan or Bush. Its incredibly hard to get past this block in people's mind. This is the Republicans fault; they had a lot of power and used it unwisely and misrepresented legitimate ideas.

When Republicans win elections, we do not win anything. They are just as destructive, if not more so, than the Democrats. When the Democrats screw up, we can point to it and talk about how big government fails. When Republicans screw up, we have to explain how it wasn't actually free markets and how it also shows that big government fails. As a party, the Republicans are patently anti-liberty and only a select few of their members deserve even a small amount of support. The party as a whole is an appalling show.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

bloomj31 — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:50:48 GMT

Welp, it's like Sowell says, politics has much less to do with facts and logic than what people believe. Maybe the libertarians should trademark all their terminology and then no one will be able to use it without libertarian consent. Lol, I'm just kidding, it's a joke.

Also, I get what you mean about separating libertarian ideology from the LP but you know...this is a thread about Republicans and we're a political party. So it's kinda weird to have a discussion about political ideology without having a discussion about political parties. But I get what you mean nonetheless, don't worry.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

JAlanKatz — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:42:11 GMT

bloomj31:

Anyways, I can see why libertarians would feel the Republican Party hurts them. It makes sense. But it's just not quite like that imo.

The libertarian party, to borrow a phrase, is always trying to "ice skate up a hill."

The original question was about libertarians, not the LP. I didn't take it to be about the GOP hurting the LP at the polls. I took it to be about the GOP hurting libertarians and/or liberty. It hurts libertarians in that our arguments are linked in the public imagination to the arguments of a bunch of corporate welfare types, and people can't hear "free market" without hearing "crony capitalism" due to the behavior of the GOP. The GOP cynically uses libertarian talking points while promoting something that is just as far from a free market as what the Dems suggest. That the GOP destroys liberty in the country goes without saying - I for one certainly remember a world without the Patriot Act, Real ID, nationalized airport security, a prescription drug benefit, the ADA... I am not old enough to remember, but can read in books, about Nixon, the gold window, wage and price controls... and that cynical bastard Stein has the nerve to go on about free markets...even Chomsky has pointed this out, saying that he could not understand how any libertarians could support Reagan, while Reagan was promoting facism in the name of free markets, simultaneously taking away economic freedoms while smearing the free market cause.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

bloomj31 — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:24:59 GMT

Anyways, I can see why libertarians would feel the Republican Party hurts them. It makes sense. But it's just not quite like that imo.

The libertarian party, to borrow a phrase, is always trying to "ice skate up a hill."

Sure, the cause is worthy I suppose, but it's a fight that isn't likely to be won. At least not the way they're fighting it. In my opinion of course.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

Jackson LaRose — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 03:32:40 GMT

bloomj31:
I'm not gay, I don't do drugs

I guess that's why you are a Republican then

bloomj31:
but they're really not trying to force me to be Christian

Right. They just force you to adhere to Christian moral values.

bloomj31:
But they're still important to me. Just not as important as being able to keep my money.

Which is why you choose to be a Republican. One party isn't really superior to the other, it just depends on what you value more.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

JAlanKatz — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 01:23:56 GMT

bloomj31:
You must've voted for Obama then.

Have you ever read the 1932 platform?

On your points on money, you've done a fine job of illustrating why most of us here have no interest in either party. To say "we can't take a position that challenges the status quo on central banking because we think we'd fail" is not quite true, but if it were, it wouldn't be much of a reason to support that party.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

filc — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:50:45 GMT

If anything the republican party just creates fodder for the left and seriously discredits capitalism. They scream about capitalism, and when in power setup fascism. Most people on the left are justified in their hatred of capitalism, they think it's what the republican party has always brought to them, fascism.

I do think the republican party hurts us, they discredit our terms, and mis-represent the mechanics of the economic system. If I was economically ignorant I'd be running from them as well.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

LvMIenthusiast — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:45:29 GMT

Again, I'm not trying to be harsh with you in particular (I hope you don't take it that way either), I just think the modern Republican platform/ party is beyond silly (and justification for that matter).

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

LvMIenthusiast — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:42:22 GMT

bloomj31:

Caley McKibbin:

I agree with the Franklin D. Roosevelt platform 1932 more than the Republican platform.

You must've voted for Obama then.

You do realize what FDR's 1932 platform encompassed right? It was vastly different from how he manifested himself in office.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

bloomj31 — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:27:25 GMT

Caley McKibbin:

I agree with the Franklin D. Roosevelt platform 1932 more than the Republican platform.

You must've voted for Obama then.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

Caley McKibbin — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:23:20 GMT

bloomj31:
I mean how much of the Democratic platform do you agree with and how much of the Republican platform do you agree with?

I agree with the Franklin D. Roosevelt platform 1932 more than the Republican platform.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

bloomj31 — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:33:59 GMT

Well, I'll be myopic then.

This conversation has made me tired.

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

jaredsmith — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:03:56 GMT

Nitroadict:

bloomj31:

Nitroadict:

Idiotic. The least you could do is allow that the Republican Party does not really represent conservatives anymore.

It comes closer to representing conservatives like myself than the Democratic Party does. I mean I'm really more of a classical liberal, but I know full well that most of my ideas are considered extreme nowadays. So I just vote for the party that most closely approximates my ideas and has a chance of winning (why I don't vote libertarian.) That's the Republican Party right now.

So your going to rationalize a party that rapes small c conservative, libertarian & anti-federalist rhetoric in order to achieve their goals of socially conservative, theocratic derivative neo-conservative policy, different shade of liberalist-statism that ultimately does not reflect remotely anything libertarian beyond a kleptocratic acknowledgment towards their fellow political peers?

Stupid.

Dammmnnnnn!

Re: How much do Republicans hurt us?

Andrew Cain — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:46:05 GMT

bloomj31:
I'm not either. Who said this?

I'm not saying that you specifically have it. I'm saying that it is a general position of the Republican party. Sure there are free-trade people who are in the Republican party who are trying to reform this position but they are on the margin.