General

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Stephen — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:47:34 GMT

baxter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift: "The record for the tire deadlift (in which hummer tires are used in place of plates) under Strongman rules where lifting straps are allowed is 498.9 kg (1100 lbs) by Benedikt Magnússon."

By your argument, if this guy has superior physical strength, then Magnusson must be an African name.

Based on my sample size of one...

baxter:
As far as Chinese having higher IQ or whatever, I can't name a single famous Chinese mathematician, physicist, or economist. Euler, Ramanujan, Gauss, Leibniz, Newton, Jacobi, Legendre, Pascal, Bernoulli, Goldbach, Riemann, Siegel, Euclid, Fermat, Borwein, Minkowski, Kanada, Einstein, Faraday, Maxwell, Rutherford, Bohr, Schrodinger, Feynman, Kaku, Chandresakar, Hawking, Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, Bohm-Bawerk, Bastiat, Smith, Ricardo, Menger - not one of them Chinese. Well, I guess Li is Chinese and did make a contribution to Riemann Hypothesis, but I'm not sure he's that famous.

Cultural and institutional factors count as well. This doesn't prove what you want it to.

baxter:
So I guess my ancedotal, non-scientific, biased opinion pulled out of my butt outweighs yours. I assign a crap quotient (CQ) of 147 to my opinion, while yours is only 86, making my opinion more than 60 crap points superior.

Real mature.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

baxter — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 01:17:31 GMT

>They [blacks] seem to have better muscle control, dexterity, balance, physical strength, and physical endurance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift: "The record for the tire deadlift (in which hummer tires are used in place of plates) under Strongman rules where lifting straps are allowed is 498.9 kg (1100 lbs) by Benedikt Magnússon."

By your argument, if this guy has superior physical strength, then Magnusson must be an African name.

As far as Chinese having higher IQ or whatever, I can't name a single famous Chinese mathematician, physicist, or economist. Euler, Ramanujan, Gauss, Leibniz, Newton, Jacobi, Legendre, Pascal, Bernoulli, Goldbach, Riemann, Siegel, Euclid, Fermat, Borwein, Minkowski, Kanada, Einstein, Faraday, Maxwell, Rutherford, Bohr, Schrodinger, Feynman, Kaku, Chandresakar, Hawking, Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, Bohm-Bawerk, Bastiat, Smith, Ricardo, Menger - not one of them Chinese. Well, I guess Li is Chinese and did make a contribution to Riemann Hypothesis, but I'm not sure he's that famous.

So I guess my ancedotal, non-scientific, biased opinion pulled out of my butt outweighs yours. I assign a crap quotient (CQ) of 147 to my opinion, while yours is only 86, making my opinion more than 60 crap points superior.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Marko — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:23:32 GMT

Stephen:

If you take ppl who have the same upbringing, education, and income level, any significant difference can hardly be attributed to environmental factors.

But that's not an example.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Stephen — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:06:23 GMT

Marko:

Stephen:

Because there are IQ differences on average between members of different races when environment is controlled for.

And what would be an example of this 'controlled environment'?

If you take ppl who have the same upbringing, education, and income level, any significant difference can hardly be attributed to environmental factors.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Marko — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 04:43:59 GMT

Stephen:

Because there are IQ differences on average between members of different races when environment is controlled for.

And what would be an example of this 'controlled environment'?

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Stephen — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 04:32:51 GMT

Marko:
"Blacks" doesn't describe anyone when we are talking sports. Kenyans and Ethiopians excel at totally different sports than Nigerians or Ghanians.

I don't disagree. The more refined the distinction, the more accurate the results.

Marko:
Then how do you know the difference has to do with race?

Because there are IQ differences on average between members of different races when environment is controlled for.

The point is that yesterday's Chinese and Europeans are not the same as today's. I would guess that 19th century Chinese were more intelligent however, because the evidence indicates that groups evolving in harsher climatic conditions tend to develop higher levels of intelligence.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Marko — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 03:47:35 GMT

Stephen:

It is just my general observation. Yes, blacks are terrible swimmers, and MMA will probably always be dominated by whites. On the other hand, basketball, football, 100 metre dash, ect will always be dominated by blacks. They seem to have better muscle control, dexterity, balance, physical strength, and physical endurance.

"Blacks" doesn't describe anyone when we are talking sports. Kenyans and Ethiopians excel at totally different sports than Nigerians or Ghanians.

Stephen:

Marko:

Stephen:

For example, Chinese on average have a higher level of natural intelligence than whites or jews.

What if we compared 19th century Chinese and 19th century whites?

I have no idea.

Then how do you know the difference has to do with race?

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Stephen — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 03:19:00 GMT

auctionguy10:

Stephen:

. Blacks are overall more naturally athletic than whites. In terms of athleticism, they are superior.

I'd say this has a lot to do with actually engaging in a lot more physical activity than whites. Like you know how people say "yeah black people are naturally gifted at things like basketball"- but ignore the hours and hours and hours of time spent practicing the game since they were young as if it doesn't mean anything.

My observation is that individuals tend to have a drive for activities they excel at and lose interest in activities they are not very good at.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Stephen — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 03:17:10 GMT

baxter:

>Blacks are overall more naturally athletic than whites. In terms of athleticism, they are superior.

Yet there are some sports where they do not seem to thrive. The statement is clearly a matter of opinion and not of science. Atheletic and intellectual ability cannot be scientifically measured.

It is just my general observation. Yes, blacks are terrible swimmers, and MMA will probably always be dominated by whites. On the other hand, basketball, football, 100 metre dash, ect will always be dominated by blacks. They seem to have better muscle control, dexterity, balance, physical strength, and physical endurance.

baxter:
How do you even measure a person who might far exceed the average in athleticism, yet simply chooses not to exercise such abilities.

idk. I also don't see the relevance.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Stephen — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 03:11:32 GMT

Marko:

Stephen:

For example, Chinese on average have a higher level of natural intelligence than whites or jews.

What if we compared 19th century Chinese and 19th century whites?

I have no idea.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Stephen — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 03:10:53 GMT

@ baxter

It is imperfect. It is an indirect measure. It measures an individuals ability to perform abstract mental tasks with speed and accuracy. It measures effect and not cause.

And you're right. It's an art, not an exact science. With that said, it seems to be highly objective given that it is a powerful predictor of income.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

scineram — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 00:13:52 GMT

The Late Andrew Ryan:
And also it needs to be said, bi racial women are gorgeous

Not if it includes black.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

Marko — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 22:40:56 GMT

Stephen:

For example, Chinese on average have a higher level of natural intelligence than whites or jews.

What if we compared 19th century Chinese and 19th century whites?

Re: The Fallacy of Race

baxter — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 22:15:04 GMT

>Blacks are overall more naturally athletic than whites. In terms of athleticism, they are superior.

Yet there are some sports where they do not seem to thrive. The statement is clearly a matter of opinion and not of science. Atheletic and intellectual ability cannot be scientifically measured. How do you even measure a person who might far exceed the average in athleticism, yet simply chooses not to exercise such abilities.

Re: The Fallacy of Race

auctionguy10 — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:42:47 GMT

Stephen:

. Blacks are overall more naturally athletic than whites. In terms of athleticism, they are superior.

I'd say this has a lot to do with actually engaging in a lot more physical activity than whites. Like you know how people say "yeah black people are naturally gifted at things like basketball"- but ignore the hours and hours and hours of time spent practicing the game since they were young as if it doesn't mean anything.