General

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Vichy Army — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 03:15:35 GMT

I never noticed much of a difference between Hitler's national socialism and Mao/Stalin's international socialism. What is it that makes the former so much better than the latter? (I'm not 100% sure that it's fair to equate Mao with Stalin)

I sent you a message on the former. In regards to the Mao and Stalin thing, they aren't the same. Stalinism as a movement was the Old Left: democratic centralism via Soviet Republics emphasizing technocratic state planning and Marxist dogma. Maoism is 'grass-roots' democratic socialism, and is much closer to the bad sort of 'anarchy'; it was represented in the takeover of the Universities by the New Left in the 60s (if you wonder what all those 'protests' were about it was quite simply this: Maoism vs. Stalinism).

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Jesse — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:49:15 GMT

Liberté:
Jesse:
What are the best books from the other side? I am often frustrated by the fact that I always have to start from square one when I defend capitalism, I want to do my future opponents the favor of not requiring the same from them.

The 'best' and 'the most commonly cited' are not the same at all. The best anti-capitalist books are typically those from the Absolutist right or the Authoritarian Right (Adolf Hitler) and some of the left-National socialists (Otto Strasser's "Germany Tomorrow" and "Hitler and I" are excellent). The most commonly cited are the Marxist and technocratic left, and later the Maoist left, which are basically a lot of incoherent silliness.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Cork — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:46:12 GMT

Snowflake, His section on entrepreneurs is confusing to me as well. I don't see how he can 1) concede the income of entrepreneurs is legitimate and 2) demand an economy of worker-managed firms. The two contradict each other. If it's legitimate for an entrepreneur to open up a business and hire people, then that is precisely the "undemocratic" structure he opposes.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Vichy Army — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:38:44 GMT

Jesse:
What are the best books from the other side? I am often frustrated by the fact that I always have to start from square one when I defend capitalism, I want to do my future opponents the favor of not requiring the same from them.

The 'best' and 'the most commonly cited' are not the same at all. The best anti-capitalist books are typically those from the Absolutist right or the Authoritarian Right (Adolf Hitler) and some of the left-National socialists (Otto Strasser's "Germany Tomorrow" and "Hitler and I" are excellent). The most commonly cited are the Marxist and technocratic left, and later the Maoist left, which are basically a lot of incoherent silliness.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Sieben — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:26:52 GMT

Idk I read the section on entrepreneurs. It basically states that entrepreneurs are supposed to take risks combining resources in new ways to see if they can make a profit in a competitive market. But what about entrepreneurs who engage in non-risky ventures and just sit around collecting interest? These exist in the status quo, therefore, entrepreneurs do not perform their "white knight" function in a capitalist society. Completely ignores competition between entrepreneurs. That if it really were that easy to make a buck just sitting around, a lot of people would want to do it, and profits would be drive down to their marginal revenue product. Sorry you all know this. Just ranting. Maybe he's not as big a flamer as other leftists but still....

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Jesse — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:02:10 GMT

Cork:
The best anti-capitalist book I've ever looked at is probably David Schweickart's After Capitalism.

http://tinyurl.com/y5f4q48

Obviously, I don't agree with many of his arguments. But it's far more calm and logical than about 99% of leftist tomes. He makes an honest attempt to counter opposing views instead of just mindlessly spouting a bunch of leftist rhetoric. He isn't totally ignorant of economics either, which is why he concedes there has to be some kind of market.

Perfect. This is what I was looking for. I'll look into it.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Cork — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 01:52:01 GMT

The best anti-capitalist book I've ever looked at is probably David Schweickart's After Capitalism.

http://tinyurl.com/y5f4q48

Obviously, I don't agree with many of his arguments. But it's far more calm and logical than about 99% of leftist tomes. He makes an honest attempt to counter opposing views instead of just mindlessly spouting a bunch of leftist rhetoric. He isn't totally ignorant of economics either, which is why he concedes there has to be some kind of market.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Jesse — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:49:47 GMT

I have read macro textbooks. Several. I used to be an econ major until I switched over to philosophy.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

William — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:43:44 GMT

Jesse:
What are the best books from the other side? I am often frustrated by the fact that I always have to start from square one when I defend capitalism, I want to do my future opponents the favor of not requiring the same from them.

Just start with an macro 101 book. There is no need to delve into specifics until you get the basics, Studying Keynes, Marx, etc is only useful if you are studying intellectual history.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

Jesse — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:37:42 GMT

Eh. Marx. I've read the Communist Manifesto; I'd need some convincing to ready anything more from him. His ideas are so absurd, I don't think that anybody I know would seriously use them to combat Capitalism. The people that I talk to usually chide capitalism for destroying the environment, not taking care of the poor, etc. Do you know of a book that logically and persuasively presents arguments along these lines? At first I thought Chomsky's "profit over people" would do this, it seems that his book is just a condemnation of corporatism plus a straw man fallacy. Namely, that corporatism = capitalism.

Re: Anti-capitalist books

fakename — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:17:23 GMT

I personally liked "Capital" but so far, I haven't gotten past the section treating relative value. The reason I liked it is because, it isn't as boring as most people make it out to be -a pleasant surprise to say the least.

Anti-capitalist books

Jesse — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 23:36:57 GMT

What are the best books from the other side? I am often frustrated by the fact that I always have to start from square one when I defend capitalism, I want to do my future opponents the favor of not requiring the same from them.