General

Re: Muslims in Eruope

Prateek Sanjay — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 18:41:22 GMT

Muslim countries like Syria have razed towns like Hama when tiny Muslim extremist minorities want things their way.

Re: Muslims in Eruope

Marko — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 18:34:14 GMT

Muslims are a mayority in Albania, a plurality in Bosnia. Neither has Sharia.

Muslims themselves don't want it. Except for a small minority.

Re: Muslims in Eruope

Bogart — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:39:19 GMT

I would say that if you are correct then the Western World in general and the USA in particular are in terrible shape bordering on hopeless. There are more than 2 million Muslims in the USA and just over a billion world wide. There is no country that can possibly defend itself through centralized violence that can hold off these hordes in perpetutity. It is not only militarily impossible but financially as well.

So you are left with only one soultion assuming you are correct, that is to surrender to these savages before they destroy you.

Now assume that there are only a tiny number of complete wack jobs that are doing these things. Then the problem becomes more manageable.

Re: Muslims in Eruope

Smiling Dave — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:32:21 GMT

These neo-cons have pointed to Europe, where Muslims have not integrated well with their new home countries.

Funny how they had to go to Europe. As if there are no Muslims living in the USA. There are between 2.5 to 7 million of them

From Wikipedia on "Islam in the United States" [worth reading the whole article]

"According to a 2004 telephone survey of a sample of 1846 Muslims conducted by the polling organization Zogby, the respondents were more educated and affluent than the national average, with 59% of them holding at least an undergraduate college degree.^[85] Citing the Zogby survey, a 2005 Wall Street Journal editorial by Bret Stephens and Joseph Rago expressed the tendency of American Muslims to report employment in professional fields, with one in three having an income over $75,000 a year.^[86] The editorial also characterized American Muslims as "role models both as Americans and as Muslims".

Unlike many Muslims in Europe, American Muslims do not tend to feel marginalized or isolated from political participation. Several organizations were formed by the American Muslim community to serve as 'critical consultants' on U.S. policy regarding Iraq and Afghanistan. Other groups have worked with law enforcement agencies to point out Muslims within the United States that they suspect of fostering 'intolerant attitudes'. Still others have worked to invite interfaith dialogue and improved relations between Muslim and non-Muslim Americans.^[87]

As of May 30, 2005, over 15,000 Muslims were serving in the United States Armed Forces^[91].

Muslims have attacked the free speech of people they don’t like,

How very American of them! Here is the tip of the iceberg.

they live in ethnic neighborhoods,

OMG. That must have been the root cause of 9/11, absolutely. And it explains why it happened in NYC, which is totally divided into ethnic neighborhoods, as anyone knows who lives there.

desire Sharia law,

So wanting to have their own court system led to 9/11? Or is an indication of a violent animal nature?

and there have been riots against non-Muslims.

Maybe there have been, but that link doesn't mention any. Just bg crowds in the street, praying.

My neo-con friends claim that this shows that Muslims are violent towards non-Muslims and will not be peaceful towards America unless we submit to Sharia law.

The mother of all non sequitors.

Bottom line, there's a bit of a difference between "living in ethnic neighborhoods" and planning and executing a 9/11. It's like saying they throw footballs, therefore will throw a nuke.

Re: Muslims in Eruope

AdrianHealey — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:16:25 GMT

That this problem is only a marginal one.

Just because they want to implement sharia law, it doesn't follow that the typical European Muslim want's to blow himself up in the subway or anything.

As soon that Muslims start to blow themselves up because of their lack of integration, the argument would be valid.

As a European myself - Belgium for that matter - I can safely say I've never ever ever ever felt threatened by a Muslim who was going to blow himself up. It is however true that Muslims are disproportionally present in the crime statistics of basically 'petty crime', but this because of our fucked up integration procedures - subsidizing poverty and crime; basically.

But as a general rule; most Muslims aren't bombing us nor are there general movements attacking us in Europe.

I would thus point out the difference between the two.

Muslims in Eruope

GooPC — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:48:39 GMT

I’m debating with some neo-cons about the causes of 9/11. I say that it’s blowback for our previous actions. They say that Muslims are extremists and will attack us anyway because they want to spread Sharia law.

These neo-cons have pointed to Europe, where Muslims have not integrated well with their new home countries. Muslims have attacked the free speech of people they don’t like, they live in ethnic neighborhoods, desire Sharia law, and there have been riots against non-Muslims. My neo-con friends claim that this shows that Muslims are violent towards non-Muslims and will not be peaceful towards America unless we submit to Sharia law.

I’m not very knowledgeable about Europe and Muslims; what’s the counter argument to these neo-cons?