General

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Conza88 — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 02:11:15 GMT

Argumentum ad nauseam.

"I think he has accomplished nothing"

Oh yeah, because the hatred and anger, the spotlight now directed on the Federal Reserve - an unquestionable institution for over a century is now mainstream.

"muddied the waters"

Because saying you don't support any taxes, isn't clear. Because saying you want to Abolish the FED, CIA, FBI, End the Empire, Destroy the Dept. of Homeland Security, TSA, Dept. of Labor etc. etc..... isn't clear at all.

"attracted a lot of idiots"

Attracted amazingly intelligent people who have never been shown an alternative, who are now anarcho-capitalists and Austrian Economists...

*YAWN*

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Merlin — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 20:02:01 GMT

Alright, let's assume that he does believe in decentralization for his own nefarious purposes and not because he thinks decentralization is the best approach towards either a minarchist state or the elimination of the state altogether. Let's assume that he writes what he writes and promotes what he promotes for political gain, perhaps to build up a cadre of people to found his own empire in Montana or something.

Even if his motivations were horrific a push towards decentralization and getting information out have positive benefits.

Amin to that!

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Edmund Carlyle — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:41:50 GMT

I never said his motivations were 'horrific'. I said he's not a libertarian; and, like all politicians, he's two faced.

I think he has accomplished nothing, muddied the waters and attracted a lot of idiots who don't understand libertarianism and now cause people to cast aspersions on real libertarians because a bunch of white nationalists with an imaginary version of the American Revolution run around associating themselves with libertarianism.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

CrazyCoot — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:26:48 GMT

It's correct. Ron Paul is not a libertarian or a propertarian. He's a scheming politician and inconsistent as all Hell; he believes in state power, he just wants it to be the nice mafia. I don't understand the obsession a bunch of supposed libertarians have with this professional scoundrel.

Alright, let's assume that he does believe in decentralization for his own nefarious purposes and not because he thinks decentralization is the best approach towards either a minarchist state or the elimination of the state altogether. Let's assume that he writes what he writes and promotes what he promotes for political gain, perhaps to build up a cadre of people to found his own empire in Montana or something.

Even if his motivations were horrific a push towards decentralization and getting information out have positive benefits.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Conza88 — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 03:44:57 GMT

"This is inane."

Your position is inane, which is why you're now abandoning the discussion. The darnkess hates the light, so run from it. I gather you've trolled that position around for so long, you can't handle admitting that you were wrong. That's unfortunate.

"I am not going to try to prove to you"

It's because you can't. I just proved he is an anarcho-capitalist, or closet one anyway - it is his goal. You can try attack his methods, but that will fail too.

"Anyone so delusional is beyond helping."

Ad hominem, invalid argument.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Edmund Carlyle — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 03:32:48 GMT

Except there are prominent & vast numbers of libertarians on all sides of both debates

Yes, and some of them are wrong.

This is inane. I am not going to try to prove to you that a career politician and pork barrel rolling anti-immigration Constitutionalist is not an anarcho-capitalist. Anyone so delusional is beyond helping.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Conza88 — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 03:29:41 GMT

"Except when he's not, like every day when he votes for anti-abortion, immigration restrictions"

Except there are prominent & vast numbers of libertarians on all sides of both debates, there isn't yet a definitive libertarian position - to claim as such is disingenuous. You can go ahead and make the case that one position isn't, but because you support one doesn't then make not a libertarian - which is what you are claiming.

"Endorses local state's rights to outlaw flag burning and the centralizing document that created this monster to begin with"

Back your claim up thanks. He doesn't endorse the Constutition when compared with voluntarism. You just failed philosophy 101. i.e you need to ask COMPARED TO WHAT? Every question he's ever asked has essentially been from a statist perspective. When asked from an anarcho-capitalist one, he accepted it. Funny that.

(Please visit the site to view this media)

4min+...

Ron on flag burning amendment:

"Mr. Speaker, this is ultimately an attack on private property. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression depend on property. We do not have freedom of expression of our religion in other people's churches; it is honored and respected because we respect the ownership of the property. The property conveys the right of free expression, as a newspaper would or a radio station. Once Congress limits property rights, for any cause, no matter how noble, it limits freedom.

Some claim that this is not an issue of private property rights because the flag belongs to the country. The flag belongs to everybody. But if you say that, you are a collectivist. That means you believe everybody owns everything. So why do American citizens have to spend money to obtain, and maintain, a flag if the flag is community owned? If your neighbor, or the Federal Government, owns a flag, even without this amendment you do not have the right to go and burn that flag."

"You're the one that needs to get a grip on reality"

I have. Try again bro, this time actually read the thread before chucking a hissy fit. Ignorance is piss. And although it is an honor to be singled out in your signature, can you do us a favour - actually link to the thread where I back up my claim?

"Ron Paul and his so-called revolution have done nothing but muddy the waters and waste money on fruitless attempts to reign in a mafia through evil and unworkable methods."

That isn't his goal. He has stated so himself, i.e that electing more liberty candidates won't do jack shite in terms of votes and changing anything in Congress, you know the STANDARD ANARCHO-CAPITALIST position. Which just goes to show how pathetic your understanding is. Thanks for making that clear to all.

"Ideas are the only things that count, and politicians are, for the most part, pretty much irrelevant," Ron Paul told the London Independent in December.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

William — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:35:28 GMT

80 posts later.....no. And that's it, this thread should be a wrap. Simple, right?

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Edmund Carlyle — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:27:22 GMT

Ron Paul is an anarcho-capitalist,

Except when he's not, like every day when he votes for anti-abortion, immigration restrictions, endorses local state's rights to outlaw flag burning and the centralizing document that created this monster to begin with. You're the one that needs to get a grip on reality, if you believe a pork barrel rolling white nationalist high level government employee is an anarchist of any kind.

Edmund Carlyle needs to understand that attacking a man who has done more for liberty than pretty much anyone else alive (by changing hearts and minds - bar maybe Rockwell via the Institute) isn't exactly a good use of ones time, and kind of reeks of sadism.

Claims which I reject utterly. Ron Paul and his so-called revolution have done nothing but muddy the waters and waste money on fruitless attempts to reign in a mafia through evil and unworkable methods.

I don't have anything against Paul personally, I've never met him, but he has no business calling himself a libertarian.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Conza88 — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:21:52 GMT

Ron Paul is an anarcho-capitalist, not only does Edmund Carlyle needs to get a grip on reality & adopt a strategy that isn't full of fail & strawmen, it seems there are others here that do too.

Edmund Carlyle needs to understand that attacking a man who has done more for liberty than pretty much anyone else alive (by changing hearts and minds - bar maybe Rockwell via the Institute) isn't exactly a good use of ones time, and kind of reeks of sadism. Pathetic. The movement needs more people like Ron Paul, and less people like you.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Andrew Cain — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 01:44:28 GMT

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Edmund Carlyle — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 01:41:14 GMT

I can tell you're trolling.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

liberty student — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 01:05:53 GMT

Edmund Carlyle:
He doesn't 'get the word out'. He diverts resources from real libertarian projects to his inane authoritarian schemes and political jockeying, he produces a perverted pseudoliberalism which 1) produces a false view of liberalism and 2) attracts people who are anti-liberal to the libertarian movement. And I think that it goes without saying that if the biggest spokesperson for your liberal movement is a career politician then maybe you need to seriously rethink your strategy and what sort of people you want to be appealing to.

I can't tell if you're trolling or ignorant about economics.

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Angurse — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:31:34 GMT

No, customary norms arise out of individual dispute resolutions.

Disputes require more than one person (groups).

Re: Is Stefan Molyneux affiliated with Mises.org?

Edmund Carlyle — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:25:38 GMT

No, customary norms arise out of individual dispute resolutions.