General

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

Zachary Plaxco — Thu, 12 May 2011 16:05:11 GMT

With more libertarian-than-thou logic, anything anti-state can be supported and explained!

Edit: Liberty Student, you claim that the state, the constitution, the president, they all don't exist. I must ask, are you a fan of the economic way of thinking?

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

Lagrange multiplier — Thu, 12 May 2011 14:22:15 GMT

liberty student:
The title of President, and the office it derives its power from is a delusion. Avoid a fallacy of composition.

Can you explain how the office of Presidency is symptomatic of the "fallacy of composition"?

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

z1235 — Thu, 12 May 2011 13:48:38 GMT

liberty student:

z1235:
A non-existent President that nukes Hiroshima and Nagasaki

The title of President, and the office it derives its power from is a delusion. Avoid a fallacy of composition.

No, the person who is President, with the ability and power to push said button is most certainly not a delusion. The legitimacy of such power (admittedly, derived from a mass delusion) has no bearing on its unquestionable tangibility.

Btw, humanity without delusions is a pipe dream. Human history is but a sequence of better delusions replacing inferior ones (most of the time). Through evolution, delusions that produce more flourishing societal outcomes simply outperform (outlive) the delusions producing inferior ones. You can not eliminate delusions. Your only hope is adjusting them. That's where Paul comes in.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

Andrew Cain — Thu, 12 May 2011 12:23:48 GMT

"I guess you'd never know would you."

Eh. I'll survive. While I'm not trying to disrespect people who are posting here, I don't put as much stock in internet debates as I once did. Debate should be held in journals with proper citations and quotes, not something as disjointed as forums. I do pop in from time to time though to see if I can send someone in the right direction concerning literature.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

Lincoln — Thu, 12 May 2011 10:30:56 GMT

Libertyandlife:
I honestly don't think any bad could come out of Ron Paul being elected. I just don't think he will.

Some of his foreign policy views are just plain crazy.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

John James — Thu, 12 May 2011 10:24:35 GMT

Andrew Cain:
I think you guys are missing his point. I think he is trying to say that Congress, as an institution, doesn't have any vested special priviledges or authority over other individuals. People thinking that Congress has the authority to dictate the lifestyles of others is what I think LS considers the "delusion." I could be misinterpretating him though.

I guess you'd never know would you.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

Andrew Cain — Thu, 12 May 2011 08:21:30 GMT

I think you guys are missing his point. I think he is trying to say that Congress, as an institution, doesn't have any vested special priviledges or authority over other individuals. People thinking that Congress has the authority to dictate the lifestyles of others is what I think LS considers the "delusion." I could be misinterpretating him though.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

DD5 — Wed, 11 May 2011 22:49:18 GMT

Lagrange multiplier:
can get by with cheating when he says, "There is no wife!"

It depends. What makes this woman who claims to be his wife really his wife?

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

Lagrange multiplier — Wed, 11 May 2011 22:37:34 GMT

Inasmuch as there exists a "stop sign" on your local corner, there exists a Congress.

Of course, these are all reducible to expectations, but so are terms like "huband" and "wife"; yet, I very much doubt liberty student can get by with cheating when he says, "There is no wife!"

To quote Calvert:

…[T]here is, strictly speaking, no separate animal that we can identify as an institution. There is only rational behavior, conditioned on expectations about the behavior and reactions of others. When these expectations about others’ behavior take on a particularly clear and concrete form across individuals, when they apply to situations that recur over a long period of time, and especially when they involve highly variegated and specific expectations about the different roles of different actors in determining what actions others should take, we often collect these expectations and strategies under the heading institution…

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

Neodoxy — Wed, 11 May 2011 22:29:07 GMT

liberty student:

Neodoxy:
If an individual believes that god exists then sure, he exists in your reality, this doesn't mean that he exists in mine. If person X is good in my mind and my reality this does not mean that he will be a good man in yours.

So there are multiple realities? Does it matter at all if there is a God, or does it only matter if people believe or disbelieve there is a God?

Well gee after you're little conversation with JJ I feel as though I can hardly bring this back but whatev.

Yes, there are multiple realities. Just as if I put down something in front of two people, one said it was good, the other said that it was bad. Both of them are correct so long as they are stating what they believe. Preferences are subjective, the reason why most people don't realize that reality is totally subjective as well is because of the fact that people perceive similar things. But how I think of something does not matter as long as it works with that which I perceive. The idea of an objective or observer less reality is absolute none sense, for instance the existence of the colorblind helps to show how reality was subjective. A color blind person and a color seeing person can look at the same thing and they would perceive it differently, neither version of reality is necessarily correct or false. If you saw the whole world as nothing but odd blobs and moving orbs of nonsense, but you learned how to manipulate your environment then this would not matter, you would have no way of knowing that others, who perceived things normally, were perceiving the world in a different way and that their reality was different.

If an individual believes that there is a god then in their reality there is such a thing as a god, however this will not necessarily mean that their perceptions will match up with this.

If I am simply come up with grand delusions and you can show that I am wrong please do so, I was not happy when I came to these conclusions.

So there is a president, to those who believe in his legitimacy, there is a constitution, that one I don't even understand why you're arguing, there is a set of rules and laws put down on a piece of paper what matters is whether or not there is an active constitution, one that is followed by those in power. Private property is actually probably more ambiguous and less "real" than anything dealing with the U.S. government.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

limitgov — Wed, 11 May 2011 17:39:50 GMT

"Obviously there is an entity/concept called Congress, we're all referring to it by name. The delusion is that there exists a Congress, or a Constitution, or a President, or an election as commonly understood."

So does this work at keeping from paying taxes to these nonexistent entities? Or does money not exist either?

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

liberty student — Wed, 11 May 2011 16:48:50 GMT

Andrew, I am sorta burnt out on what I consider to be a very obvious and simple set of statements, so you'll have to forgive me for being brief.

Yes, No Treason. But not No Treason exclusively. I have to anchor to Ron Paul stuff in order to communicate with the Paulians.

I prefer delusion to doesn't exist.

Obviously there is an entity/concept called Congress, we're all referring to it by name. The delusion is that there exists a Congress, or a Constitution, or a President, or an election as commonly understood.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

freeradicals — Wed, 11 May 2011 16:34:25 GMT

limitgov:
"If you put a gun to my head, does it make any difference what my preference is?"

What answer would come out of your mouth?

I don't understand the relevance of this question. even If he gives you an answer what useful info does it give you aside from what someone is willing to say just to survive because there's a gun to his head.

I'd rather hear what someone has to say given friendly circumstances thus yielding the most honest answer.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

liberty student — Wed, 11 May 2011 16:27:06 GMT

limitgov:

"If you put a gun to my head, does it make any difference what my preference is?"

What answer would come out of your mouth?

You're doing the same thing JJ did, and you will end up with the same results. You guys aren't going to bully me into answering questions for which I have already given an answer, satisfactory or not.

Re: Ron Paul Raised $1M in 1 Day For 2012 Campaign

limitgov — Wed, 11 May 2011 15:13:38 GMT

"If you put a gun to my head, does it make any difference what my preference is?"

What answer would come out of your mouth?