General

Re: So you want to join the army?

Anarcho-libertarian — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 15:55:42 GMT

If your army friends are Christian you could also use the arguments from Laurence Vance. According to Anthony Gregory:

"Two of Vance's most hard-hitting essays — 'Should a Christian Join the Military?' and 'Christian Killers?' — do not pull any punches in outlining the urgent conflict personally lived by those Christians who are currently carrying out orders for the U.S. military in its aggressive actions. In one profound section in the first of these articles, Vance lays out the case that the U.S. military violates every single Commandment in the Ten Commandments. In the second article, he explores the curious fact that many Christians see less contradiction in the term 'Christian killers' than they might in similarly oxymoronic phrases, such as 'Christian pimps' or 'Christian adulterers.'"

There is also Letter to a Christian Young Man Regarding Joining the Military and if your friends aren't Christian he has written Should Anyone Join the Military?

Re: So you want to join the army?

Scaramanga — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 08:24:08 GMT

As we hear, people join the army and military academies to "defend your country" and all those things......While this is probably 100% true when your country is under attack, it is hardly the case when you "join in" in countries like the U.S. and NATO which have standing armies which are indeed used in limited (?) conflicts.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of those who join in today, incuding officers at the highest level do join becasue they like the possibility of getting into adventures where the possibility of "legally" killing people is real..... In the 19th century, the military would talk about these things much openly and there was hardly any comment against it. In those times, the Defense Dept. was called the War Dept, and cavalry officers openly commented in social meetimgs that they had during the current year yet "not fleshed their swords....Or that shooting people was the greatest sport. Like Gral Wolsely wrote once, that he specifically became a sharpshooter for a while because: "man shooting is the finest sport of all; there is a certain amount of infatuation about it, the more you kill the more you wish to kill." While talking or writing like that is currently a no-no that is, "not politically correct", the motivation has of course not changed a bit. We certainly have a good exception during WWII on the U.S. side with Patton, a cartoonesque Gral who openly talked about his love for killing, and enjoyed visiting battlefields, the gore and all that. Someone like Vlad Tepes who has been depicted having lunch among 20,000 impaled people around him....

Going by the Nurembeger Trial laws, Patton and "bomber Harris" should have been executed together with the germans, and some of the germans who were, should have not been executed. But that is another story.

Re: So you want to join the army?

Clayton — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 07:52:06 GMT

@Sukrit: Yeah, I noticed a ramp in recruiting activities as unemployment rose and it dawned on me that the Pentagon definitely has an interest in unemployment, particularly among the young. Ahem, minimum wage laws most affect employment of the young.

Re: So you want to join the army?

Sukrit — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 06:39:15 GMT

If we could just get people to stop joining the army, there'd be no one left to fight all these wars for politicians. Unfortunately, in the absence of a thriving market economy providing plenty of private sector jobs, many poor people have no alternative but to join the military.

Re: So you want to join the army?

Fephisto — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 19:22:44 GMT

Show your friend these:

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These are some nice vids.

If anything, this seems to be teaching me that perhaps I might take the approach of always appealing to their self-interest, talking about the homlessness/psychological/unemployment problems of vets. Rather than getting into emotional political debates.

Re: So you want to join the army?

Jack Roberts — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:15:15 GMT

o/ hail the government, we fight for socialism.

Re: So you want to join the army?

MaikU — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:05:11 GMT

Scrooge McDuck:

I simply asked a friend who wanted to join the military "Are you okay with working for an organization that kills women and children?" Making him face that hopefully at least planted a seed of doubt.

are you insane? Every kid knows soldiers defend their country! Those children and women are just collateral damage, that's all..

Re: So you want to join the army?

MaikU — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:05:08 GMT

Scrooge McDuck:

I simply asked a friend who wanted to join the military "Are you okay with working for an organization that kills women and children?" Making him face that hopefully at least planted a seed of doubt.

are you insane? Every kid knows soldiers defend their country! Those children and women are just collateral damage, that's all..

Re: So you want to join the army?

Andrew Cain — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 11:39:59 GMT

If a draft happens I will either get a college deferment or take a random vacation to somewhere pleasant before I'm called to duty and mysteriously forget what year it is.

Re: So you want to join the army?

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 09:50:11 GMT

Yes, I really want to. but I have heard that this one is really very costly, for a simple person

Re: So you want to join the army?

Clayton — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 09:33:49 GMT

@Sukrit: Easier said than done. Ft. Leavenworth is not a happy place.

Re: So you want to join the army?

Sukrit — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 08:57:08 GMT

I certainly wouldn't fault someone who is conscripted into the military.

I don't understand this. If someone is conscripted, they are free to engage in civil disobedience. Jail is still an option available to them. I think it would be more honorable to go to jail than join the army in such a case.

Re: So you want to join the army?

Clayton — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 08:55:43 GMT

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: So you want to join the army?

Anarcho-libertarian — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 08:37:50 GMT

Clayton, click reply on my video post to see exactly how. And note that the share link under Youtube videos which says youtu.be/blahblahblah doesn't post. Copy the video link that has .com in it on the address bar.

Love the propaganda comparison. Loyalty, duty, and honor to mein fuhrer!

Re: So you want to join the army?

Clayton — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 06:15:11 GMT

Anarcho-libertarian: HOW do you post the embedded video????

Here's a recent National Guard ad... creepy as a step-uncle with nothing but a trenchcoat and boxers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr8rBhfys40

Compare to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-hYSDz8EoQ

Both impart that same feeling of anticipation of an epic spectacle. That particular movement of Carl Orff's Carmina Burana is very creepy and weird. I've listened to the other movements of that piece and this movement stands out from everything else like it was just "inserted" into the piece. Very odd. Composed in Germany during the rise of the Nazi party (though no direct Nazi affiliation that I know of). Still creepy.

Clayton -