General

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Peter Šurda — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 12:55:15 GMT

Users of Bitcoin cannot be forced to be safe. Bitcoin merely allows you to choose the security level yourself out of a wide range of options, some of which are extremely secure against theft (e.g. brainwallets).

Also, you can now use Bitcoin to donate to LewRockwell.com: https://www.lewrockwell.com/donate/

And also I now have a blog: http://www.economicsofbitcoin.com/

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Andris Birkmanis — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 07:59:25 GMT

Was it a parody of Dave? :)

BTW, you can buy it using anything. Including services.

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Anenome — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 07:10:00 GMT

Gee, it's too bad you can only buy bitcoin via paypal and credit cards.
Guess that's it for BTC then :P

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Andris Birkmanis — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 06:30:43 GMT

Why didn't the exchanges just put a waiting period before they deliver the BTC?

I do not know for sure (I am in no way affiliated), but I can guess at least two reasons: the exchanges were created by amateurs and they were eager to establish reputation/market share.

Buying BTC sounds quite risky as it is, and if you add a waiting period on top of it you won't get many buyers.

AFAIK, the surviving exchanges do not deal with PayPal or other payment methods that can be reverted unilaterally. Or if they do, they use a reputation/trust system, plus they limit amounts traded on such transactions, plus they add a premium for risk. Just an example of one reputation system, used by multiple traders: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Blargg — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:58:52 GMT

Why didn't the exchanges just put a waiting period before they deliver the BTC? This sounds like common scams where someone buys something with a check, the seller cashes it and gives the item, but later the bank calls that the check wasn't valid and demands the money back.

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Malachi — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:33:08 GMT

Not sure what Malachi said. That gold and silver can be stolen, too, so all the bragging that bitcoin is ultra safe and cannot be stolen still stands, even though it can be stolen?

for someone who is quite eager to discuss a subject, you certainly dont put much effort into understanding the subject matter or the statements made by the other participants in the discussion. One might even come to believe that your apparent unwillingness to seek understanding is a contributing factor to your confusion. Who told you that bitcoin "cannot be stolen"?

Oh sorry, it cannot be stolen. It's just that once you accept a bitcoin and try to get rid of it, you allow your pocket to be picked of USD, plus lose the bitcoin, too. OK. Can't get much safer and ultra secure than that.

Please do let us know when you feel like making sense. Right now youre just flaunting your passionate refusal to understand.

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Smiling Dave — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 11:48:24 GMT

Not sure what Malachi said. That gold and silver can be stolen, too, so all the bragging that bitcoin is ultra safe and cannot be stolen still stands, even though it can be stolen? Oh sorry, it cannot be stolen. It's just that once you accept a bitcoin and try to get rid of it, you allow your pocket to be picked of USD, plus lose the bitcoin, too. OK. Can't get much safer and ultra secure than that.

I wonder if the bitcoin advertisers bother to point this out:

Merchants, accept bitcoin, the ultimate ultra safe money in the history of the universe. Oh, did we mention that once you accept a bitcoin, you can never get rid of it without having your pocket picked of USD as well? Well, that's nothing to worry about. Never happens. Except almost always, so frequently that many whole exchanges have closed down cause they were robbed blind thanks to their accepting bitcoins. Ho hum. But really, it's nothing. You're a businessman. It's your job to take risks. So what if you were wiped out? Get over yourself, before Malachi mocks you.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. E got screwed right away because they accepted bitcoin, which is what will happen to all suckers who accept it, sooner or later.

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Andris Birkmanis — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:09:45 GMT

What Malachi said, plus it was not Bitcoin that was stolen - at least, not directly.

Buyer B contacts exchange E in order to buy 10 BTC (Bitcoin) for 60 PPUSD (US dollars@PayPal).

B arranges with PP to transfer 60 USD from B's account to E's account. Upon seeing that, E transfers 10 BTC to B's Bitcoin address (irrevertably).

B changes his mind, and arranges with PP to return the 60 USD from E's account back to B's account. This is where the theft is occuring - and it is PPUSD being stolen, not BTC.

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Malachi — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 01:47:14 GMT

Enough of it was stolen to close down whole exchanges [plural!]

right, because its a bearer good. Financial institutions have been forced to shut down because all of their gold andsilver were stolen as well. Oh teh noes physical currency is insecure waaahhhh lmao ok

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Smiling Dave — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:08:24 GMT

...The way it works...

TY Andris, for giving me more to gloat over.

Malachi, Pete, AJ, Anenome, and all the rest, tell me again how fool proof and secure bitcoin is. Enough of it was stolen to close down whole exchanges [plural!]

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Andris Birkmanis — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:00:59 GMT

Quite many of the BTC exchanges were taken down by PayPal/credit card companies "reverting" their transactions (basically stealing funds).

The way it works, BTC transactions are not revertible - if you sent Bitcoins, you cannot change your mind. PP/CC transactions are revertible, with some limitations I guess. So there were quite a lot of cheaters buying BTC from exchanges using PP or CC, and after receiving BTC reverting their payments. Not sure whether this was caused by blind preference of "consumers" over "merchants" by both PP and CC, or by their desire to kill BTC exchanges.

Thpough not sure this specific exchange was a victim of a swindle as opposed to initiator - this "we are not allowed to make public" may mean anything.

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Malachi — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:48:55 GMT

Dave, you seem surprised at the existence of entreprenurial risk.

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Smiling Dave — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:03:53 GMT

More than a year on from OP, how is Bitcoin doing?

Here's a post on this very thread from Jan 6, 2012 telling us about Crypto X Change, a bitcoin service:http://mises.org/community/forums/p/24923/452579.aspx#452579

And here's what you see when you go to their site, a year later:

As of 19 November 2012, Crypto x Change stopped allowing trades. There have been a couple of incidents in which we are not allowed to make public which have forced us to close the exchange. We are sorry for any inconvenience, there are delays in support and processing withdrawals. It could take up to another 6 weeks before all withdrawl requests are finished. For all paper correspondence please post to pobox...

Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

Austen — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:44:53 GMT

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Re: How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

MoonShadow — Thu, 12 Jul 2012 01:57:45 GMT

More than a year on from OP, how is Bitcoin doing?