General

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

John James — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 15:32:52 GMT

Yeah that's why I threw in the second option. But most people don't differentiate the state and officials of the state anyway. I'm not exactly sure where this title would go or how you plan to use it, so I'm not totally clear what would work best. Other ideas:

"Crimes are not illegal when committed while wearing a badge"
"It's not a crime if it's for the public good."
"Government agents don't 'commit crimes'. They 'do their job.' "
"It's not a crime, it's a job."
"Government agents aren't criminals. They're good employees."

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

Andris Birkmanis — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:59:48 GMT

Thanks again!

"Crimes are not illegal when committed by government" - sounds great, except I would like to stress it that acts are committed by individuals working for the government, not the government itself.

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

John James — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:48:50 GMT

You got the major ones, but a few more might be:

Censoring/ sheltering, searching & seizing/ protecting, spying/ guarding (or "watching over")

Also you might run the phrases by some native English speakers to get some input on the most effective wording. Like for this line of shirts you might call it: "Crimes are not illegal when committed by government", or "It's not a crime if you've got a badge."

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

Andris Birkmanis — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:34:57 GMT

I am considering creating a series of t-shirts: "Crimes do not count when done by government agents".

I already have extortion/taxes, and I think murder/war, counterfeiting/central bank, and slavery/conscription should be pretty straightforward.

Not sure about kidnapping/jail. Any more ideas?

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

Andius — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 08:37:26 GMT

Hehehe, great T-shirt, the simple visuals got it right. XD

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

John James — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 07:22:09 GMT

bbnet:
Regarding Rothbard ...My friends say he looks like the Six Flags guy, so perhaps a T of Murray with his thick specs and big smile exclaiming 'Less Flags, More Fun!' with the mises.org url on the bottom?

That's actually really funny. A news guy seems to think he looks like someone even more famous...

Why Everyone Needs a Rothbard Shirt

(mistaken identity comes at 3:58)

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

bbnet — Thu, 09 Jun 2011 06:46:20 GMT

Regarding Rothbard ...

My friends say he looks like the Six Flags guy, so perhaps a T of Murray with his thick specs and big smile exclaiming 'Less Flags, More Fun!' with the mises.org url on the bottom?

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

John James — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:31:35 GMT

No worries on the copyright...they're works of the US government, thus in the public domain. The one caveat is that you can't use it to give the false impression that the agency is endorsing whatever you're putting the symbol on. But the IRS logo I don't think even has that restriction.

Have a look:

Internal Revenue Service-Seal

IRS logo

Either way, you can just make it a generic representation without all the details. You could even just have a circle with "IRS" on it if you wanted.

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

Andris Birkmanis — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:29:46 GMT

Actually, it took less time than expected: http://www.zazzle.com/what_is_a_difference_between_robbery_and_taxation_tshirt-235909330140300985

I added some text on the back - what is great, it seems that anyone can create clones of any design on this site (subject to copyright, but you have my permission), and publish modified versions, like changed text, or resized images. So if you like a t-shirt with "clean" back, that's easy!

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

Andris Birkmanis — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:15:07 GMT

Or actually, "Is there a difference?" might be the best of both...as it poses the question of is there really a difference between taxation and theft (like the first one) but also brings the viewer in, as if inviting him to find the discrepancy...like the second one.

Will try it later today.

BTW, is the IRS logo something an average American would recognize on the spot, even subconsciously? I made it barely recognizable on purpose, to avoid copyright issues :) Maybe I should preserve more resemblance to the original.

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

John James — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 03:22:53 GMT

Zizzer:
Actually John, I don't think that would work so well because the average person does not think of taxation as violence so they wouldn't even make the connection to taxation. They would just think it was some message about bully cops.

I doubt people know who Murray Rothbard is and make the connection to the "enemy of the state" t-shirt either. The point is it's a conversation starter. Kind of like paying in $2 bills....or...say...random phrases in Greek (or Latin) that virtually no one would be able to translate, let alone know the background.

How about this? The two pictures one above the other. Next to the robber is the word "ROBBER" and next to the guy he's robbing "VICTIM." Then on the other picture next to the police officer, "TAX COLLECTOR" and next to the victim "TAXPAYER."

If you're gonna go that far you might as well just use the one picture and a phrase like I suggested above...

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

Zizzer — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 02:42:24 GMT

Actually John, I don't think that would work so well because the average person does not think of taxation as violence so they wouldn't even make the connection to taxation. They would just think it was some message about bully cops.

How about this? The two pictures one above the other. Next to the robber is the word "ROBBER" and next to the guy he's robbing "VICTIM." Then on the other picture next to the police officer, "TAX COLLECTOR" and next to the victim "TAXPAYER."

That might draw attention to the excellent PR job government has done making taxation seem voluntary through their wording.

Either that or just "ROBBERY" and "TAXATION" next to them.

Or maybe under the pictures, "Funny how extortion is called taxation when the government does it."

And I like your idea DomV. It's subtle enough to wear around casually, and would be a good conversation starter if anyone asked about it.

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

DomV — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 01:43:23 GMT

I like this. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

The Greek phrase Molōn labe! (Μολὼν λαβέ; approximate Ancient Greek pronunciation [molɔ̀ːn labé], Modern Greek [moˈlon laˈve]), meaning "Come and take them" is a classical expression of defiance reportedly by King Leonidas I in response to the Persian army's demand that the Spartans surrender their weapons at the Battle of Thermopylae. It corresponds roughly to the modern equivalent English phrase "over my dead body", "bring it on" or, most closely, "come and get it". It is an exemplary use of a laconic phrase.

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

John James — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 00:34:09 GMT

Oooo...or maybe "Can you spot the difference?"

Or actually, "Is there a difference?" might be the best of both...as it poses the question of is there really a difference between taxation and theft (like the first one) but also brings the viewer in, as if inviting him to find the discrepancy...like the second one.

Re: Things we can do - t-shirts :)

Zizzer — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 00:24:42 GMT

Good idea. I like that one too.