General

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Fried Egg — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 11:15:44 GMT

Well, there's a programme on British radio tonight (BBC Radio 4): Keynes v Hayek: Two economic giants go head to head.

Hopefully it will help bring Austrian ideas to the wider public over here.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Birthday Pony — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 05:22:12 GMT

Cool.

While syndicalism isn't a thing for everyone, I'm quite amazed how well it actually worked out. Even though I come from that tradition, it's pretty incredible.

That said, it wasn't without it's faults. The way I see it the CNT/FAI got caught up in a weird political game/war that more or less forced them to join an "war coalition government." Even then, Cataluña and a good part of, I think Valencia was the other anarchist stronghold, remained autonomous for much of the civil war, all while the CNT/FAI militia held off very important fronts from fascist invasion!

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Jonathan M. F. Catalán — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 04:15:54 GMT

Fwiw, this convo has persuaded me to bookmark a book on the Spanish anarchist movement for near future purchase -- I'm looking for one that looks comprehensive.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Birthday Pony — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 04:12:45 GMT

Greek people have been having polycentric neighborhood assemblies, open to all, in which everyone is alotted the same amount of time to speak, and they have been de facto running the day-to-day happenings in many Greek neighborhoods for a while now. Dissenters are in no way bound to the decisions of the assembly. Whether or not they act on a vote is up to them.

Anyway, I'm going to go ahead and bow out now. It's safe to say we're all too unfamiliar with the Greek movement to discuss anything beyond hypotheticals, and I don't want this turning into another, "you're a statist!" "no, YOU'RE a statist!" thread.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Aiser — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 03:32:55 GMT

"Community decision panels" LOL!. Suddenly what comes to mind are all these farleft and progressive intellectuals that don't understand the real world annd come together to discuss policies within an acadameic circle. Fortunately most can't even come to an agreement with one another better yet most of their ideals ever are put into practice in the real world. Ironically these same individuals believe that they know what policies are best for the rest of us and yet live on the publics dole.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

John James — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 03:10:31 GMT

"communithy decision panels". Talk about "a shit by any other name..."

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Jonathan M. F. Catalán — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 03:00:18 GMT

How many of those anarchists, though, can explain what they would replace the current Greek government with? Discussions I've had with anarcho-syndicalists have all led to community decision panels and things of that nature.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Praetyre — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 02:21:23 GMT

Arrghh, this quote system thing really needs a fix...

RE: Saan: I'm not surprised that German law schools are enamored with social democracy. But most of modern German society is the product of American (specifically, Progressive Rooseveltian) influence, especially their legal system. There's no reason to say that German (or European) academia is any more or less enamored with social democracy than US academia. This applies just as much at the sub-tertiary level as it does in formal academia, as many of our younger users could no doubt tell us. I'm asking why the US would have more members than other countries. I don't see any significant evidence that American society and academia is any more or less obsessed with the religion of social democracy than European society and academia. The only possible exception I can think of is that America has a far higher number of Christians (probably much higher than official records indicate, given "Christian" can be a cultural affiliation in UK and European censuses), though it was left-wing Americna Evangelical Protestanism which spawned social democracy and it's ideological predecessors.

RE: John James: I was referring to the compass in general. There's nobody, be it on my charts or theirs, who fits more than lightly into that category, to the same depth that, say, a Communist leader would into the red category, or that Pinochet fits into the blue, or a left-anarchist into the green.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Birthday Pony — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:31:14 GMT

"I think these anarcho-syndicalists would rather prefer a communist government than an anarchy characterized by unfettered capitalism."

Well, once again, I don't live in Spain so I can't speak too accurately to the thoughts of the movement there, but judging from the Anarchist movements I am quite familiar with I'm not sure that assessement is true. And activist circles today tend to be highly communicative. Greek Anarchists, for example, are seeking to overthrow a very socialist government, and they have certainly earned the support of Spanish Anarchists.

Regardless, I still understand why the libertarians in Spain aren't exactly drawn to this forum.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Jonathan M. F. Catalán — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:23:49 GMT

It's an anarcho-syndicalist movement that is based on the same biases as the communist movement. It's a rejection of capitalism, not only because they equate capitalism with corporate welfare, but also because they see the capitalist system (profit) as unjust. I think these anarcho-syndicalists would rather prefer a communist government than an anarchy characterized by unfettered capitalism.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

John James — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:11:08 GMT

Praetyre:
The Nolan Chart is good for what it does, but it's based on 6 questions, not 60...

Seriously? You can create as many questions as you want. I'm just talking about the orientation of the chart itself. Again, if you want to use your chart, what is the difference between someone who is in the bottom left corner and the bottom right corner?

The purple area seems to exist solely to fill out the chart. I can't find anybody, of any persuasion, who seems to fit deep in it.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean. There is no purple anywhere on the chart I posted, and you put two organizations in the purple that appears on your chart.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Birthday Pony — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:44:36 GMT

I thought so, because from my understanding there is quite an Anarchist movement in Spain.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Saan — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:25:22 GMT

Allright guys. I lived in Europe and attended as a guest, not a student a few law classes in Trier. Germany has a Civil Law system. No Juries, and you must have law school to become a judge, and then be selected by a panel to sit the bench.

From those two that I did attend, I gleaned the following. Liberty is taught extensively as a failed experiment, so is Communism. Social Democracy is the Utopia In fact the courts are not even considered part of the government. They are what a Roman would call a Tribune.

My guess is that by the time anyone finds Mises, Rothbard, etc... They already know it is a failed experiment, and are just waiting for it to fail so Liberty advocates will come around to the enlightened ideas of social democracy.

Positive rights are the keystone to their political philsophies.

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Fried Egg — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:10:37 GMT

Speaking as someone from the UK, that had a tradition of free markets but that has been quite heavilly eroded, I can say that libertarian/free market ideas are so far outside of the general mind set as to seem completely looney and extreme by the vast majority of people here. Holding these beliefs myself it can often be quite difficult and infuriating trying to explain my point of view to others.

I only became exposed to it through the internet and stumbling upon sites like these and getting involved in conversations on line. There's virtually zero likelyhood of encountering advocates of these ideas from the people you meet.

I guess time may tell and I think that the current financial crisis has re-awoken some interest in alternative economic schools of thought such as Austrian. Indeed, there is a radio programme to be broadcast shortly re-examining the old Keynes vs. Hayek debate and asking which of these would have been best able to sort out the current mess. It's a small start but hopefully you will eventually see more British (and other non-US) people appearing on these boards...

Re: Why Are Most Mises Users from the US?

Jonathan M. F. Catalán — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:07:45 GMT

Now, I don't live in Spain or anything, but I'm assuming by libertarian you mean Austrians and not libertarian broadly defined.

I mean broad libertarianism: pro-market, small government.