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Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Jack Roberts — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:20:39 GMT

A fairly interesting book with some sections on Pirate Radios is The Pirate's Dilemma: How Youth Culture Is Reinventing Capitalism. Available at amazon. The book is not related to austrian economics.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Kakugo — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:21:34 GMT

It's curious to note nobody mentioned the '60s pirate radios (radios operating without license of any kind nor paying royalties).

They were pretty popular in the UK at the time and, until 1967, there was nothing HM Government could do about them. The most common modus operandi was broadcasting from a ship in international waters (Radio Caroline): until the Marine Broadcasting Offence Act was passed nobody could do anything about them. Pirate radios also operated inside big cities like London or Manchester with the operators becoming increasingly cunning as the clampdown tightened (for example setting up automated transmitters with timers on top of disused buildings).

Did people like them? Yes. The early pirate radios were a breath of fresh air from the stale mindset of the BBC, playing music people actually wanted to listen to. In fact when BBC Radio was overhauled at the end of the '60s most DJ's were drafted from pirate radio operations. In the '70s urban pirate radios catered to "obstracized" music fans who liked to listen to such genres as punk, ska or reggae. There was a resurgence in the '90s, mostly catering to the rave community.

It must be understood that penalties went from a little more than a slap on the wrist in the late '60s to the present draconian sentences (years of jail and ridiculous fines): the State don't want you to mess with the airwaves. But people right now have the Internet...

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Wheylous — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:14:06 GMT

My bad, guys: intensity drops off as one over r-squared.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Jack Roberts — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 20:54:22 GMT

For a start the there would be far better music on the radio. Without government licensing requirements it would remove the monopoly over the airwaves and anyone could broadcast, very similar to how it is on the internet. You can just look at how internet radio would work to see how radio would work without licensing requirements.

As for conflict over air waves i think they would be unavoidable but i do not think that it would be such a big of a problem that it would require the creation of massive tax funded bureaucracy to solve it. Property laws could be taken on to the airwaves, the homesteading principle. If you can prove that you have been on a specific frequency for a certain amount of time then you would have more sway in court. But there are probably 1000s of scenarios that i can think of right now that could occur that could all have different solutions. But none of them would have to involve licensing requirements.

It would also not be within the interest of a radio station to transmit on the frequency of another radio station, unless it was malicious and if that was the case then reputation would be a factor, especially when dealing with broadcasting, the one radio station could just tell its listeners about the problem and this could be a deterrent to a large extent.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Wheylous — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:14:16 GMT

Electomagnetism is energy and the power (flux) at a given point varies as 1/r^2. Unless everything I learned about physics is wrong.

You might be right. Hm, I'll check it again.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Autolykos — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:30:50 GMT

limitgov:
"I really didn't think it was that bad? Can you point to some examples where you think the author used "legalese"?"

I'm probably just being a baby. Its been a long day so far.

Understandable. Maybe try reading it again today?

limitgov:
"Homesteading in radio broadcasting took place"

who did they pay to broadcast? noone?

That's right. No one already owned (or was presumed to own) any combination of frequency and broadcasting power that wasn't already homesteaded. Of course, that doesn't mean the equipment or the materials to build it were free.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

John James — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:15:14 GMT

Josh:
Unless everything I learned about physics is wrong.

It just might be.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Groucho — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:40:07 GMT

Wheylous:
Ripples lose their energy at 1/r-squared (just like gravity or RF)
Just 1/r, not r^2. Force is over r-squared. Energy is simply over r.

Electomagnetism is energy and the power (flux) at a given point varies as 1/r^2. Unless everything I learned about physics is wrong.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Wheylous — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:34:41 GMT

Ripples lose their energy at 1/r-squared (just like gravity or RF)

Just 1/r, not r^2. Force is over r-squared. Energy is simply over r.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Clayton — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:20:20 GMT

I think it boils down to much more than semantics, actually.

Well, of course. But there is a presumption in many of the posts I've read on ALL (I think it's ALL forum maybe I'm misremembering) that Miseseans are some kind of demented apologists for The Rich.

I want to live in a world of peace and prosperity where me, my family and friends, my children and grandchildren can attain real fulfillment in life (in other words, not just accumulate lots of material gadgets). It is my view that the organized gang of thugs hitting people over the head and taking their stuff (aka "the State") is the single largest obstacle between society today and a healthier society where self-fulfillment is the norm, rather than the exception reserved to The Few. It seems to me that you and I agree on these points but we disagree on other, theoretical points (why things are the way they are and how to fix them, etc.)

Clayton -

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Birthday Pony — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:53:46 GMT

It can actually cost about $500 for a simple low power station that goes about 10 miles. Currently, the FCC sucks at licensing them and also hates you if you try.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Jackson LaRose — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:44:23 GMT

Who said anything about chaos? It's just a little different, that's all. And sure, I think there would definitely be pirates out there.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Raian — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:42:57 GMT

Jackson LaRose:

It would be just like now, where frequencies would bleed into different stations every 50 miles or so, but with this occuring every mile or so instead.

Well, why? Are you suggesting that people are going to start up their own stations and put them on the same frequencies as others? Are people going to scramble to build new transmission towers every few blocks so as to interfere with other signals? I don't understand why you think dismantling the FCC would lead to chaos.

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Jackson LaRose — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:28:31 GMT

MaikU,

But they are much harder to fight than little ol' me!

Re: How Would Radio Work Without Government?

Birthday Pony — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:27:36 GMT

"Dude, you really need to read Human Action. I think it will blow your mind. It's not what your friends have led you to believe."

Funny enough, I actually did pick it up after posting here, and, I'm sorry to say, that it didn't really rub my whistle.

"Property doesn't mean "gIt off my land 'fer I shoot ya!" ... that's a very vulgar, mean-spirited and low view of what property is about. Property rights are about harmonious cooperation in a world where humans are constantly rubbing elbows... in such a world, unintended conflicts arise frequently and property rights are the human social construct which has emerged to prevent and resolve many conflicts, often without the involvement of third parties."

I wasn't trying to suggest that proprietarianism meant "git off my land 'fer I shoot ya!" All I was saying was that my initial post very well could be accounted for by proprietarianism. No doubt about it. But that plenty of other property theories or social theories could account for it just as well. So singling it out as the root of property rights probably isn't accurate.

"I think that's a large source of the misunderstanding between mises.org libertarians and left libertarians."

I think it boils down to much more than semantics, actually. Otherwise people would've gotten over it at this point. It's not like LLs and Misesesesianses are just discovering each other now.