General

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

extrainfo — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:37:20 GMT

Greetings! I from Russia. Forgive me for my English.
Wished to tell to you, that your government misinforms you about Georgia - the Ossetic conflict (as at you the Russian war) FoxNews, CNN writes mass-media грузино and other news channels speak you not the truth, between USA and Geogia definitely there is an arrangement on granting the incorrect information to the people - on August, 8th, 2008 Georgia armies have severely attacked on Ossetia (more precisely on ossetic people) occured cleaning, shot old men, children and women. Villages and capital practically are not a subject to restoration on them shot from system under name GRAD. A result for today 2000 killed peace inhabitants. It is asked, for what? In what they are guilty? Unless it not a genocide? And now let's think, that would be, if Russia has not accepted in it participation... Ossetia it would be wiped out together with its small people. I once again repeat killed all without discrimination!!! And now after detection of proofs of participation in it the USA and do not wish to inform other countries to you on it. The government of these countries has created information vacuum that you have supported them. Russia bombed Geogia, but only military objects, please do not trust those who speak, that we killed peace citizens.
I write it that you have reflected on what truth is spoken you with your mass-media. About that - what democracy in that case can be!? What freedom of speech? When the mass-media speak what to speak people.
All that occured in southern Ossetia our mass-media showed on the air, and on how many I know yours in general about it held back, or showed as Soakashvili complains on Russia. And mistakes of your mass-media (FoxNews and CNN) too have shown us, when people from Ossetia on the air were stopped up with the leader or simply interrupted translation.

If you interesting in search of the truth I shall give you some criteria for information search on the Internet: you can use search on the Internet by a word "Осетия". The text to translate it is possible on a site _http://www.translate.ru/text.asp#tr_form
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV_UWA7iYy8
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qydhKsA0jWQ

or see on oser Ossetia web sites

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

MatthewWilliam — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:53:17 GMT

And here is the neocon propaganda machine hitting a snag:

Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Truth about Georgia

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Kakugo — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:19:22 GMT

I wonder what NATO and the Neo-Cons are up to. Everybody, even the most dim-witted and sycophantic military analyst, knew that the Georgian army, as much as it has been refurbished and retrained by Israeli contractors, was absolutely no match for the new Russian army. It was only a matter of how long it would take to be crushed. It was also obvious that NATO military would not intervene directly in a conflict involving the Russians. Maybe they are just looking for an excuse to field another "stabilization force" in the area, maybe they were just planning a little military intelligence (check the Russian C4I apparatus etc), maybe it was just another smear operation, maybe their goals were different.

I also wonder at the degree of corruption and moral bankruptcy of the "democratic" and "freedom-loving" Georgian leadership. What were they promised to start this war? How could they believe that "NATO will stand by you side should the need arise"? Were they simply "useful idiots" or did they know perfectly well what they were doing? This is a stern warning to everybody who still believes that we should support such persons around the world.

Neo-Cons (this is now a catch-all term including politicians from all ends of the spectrum) may be ruthless madmen, but are absolutely no fools. They went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan because they knew that they risked absolutely nothing. They didn't start war with Iran simply because they realized that it would send oil prices to the stratosphere and that would be the final blow to the economy. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. And if GMC (and its main shareholders, the cartels known as trade unions) cannot sell enough cars, they'll become VERY angry. They do not care anything, and let me be pefectly clear here, about what we, the serfs, think or do. They know that the vast majority of the population will simply "go along", even if this means eating black bread and not being able to buy a new pair of shoes. They know that those who take to the streets, as much as they are right, can be simply branded as "dangerous extremists" and be dealt with by the immensely powerful para-military forces that we still naively call "the police".

And that's all from a "dangerous extremist"!

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Libertas est Veritas — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:24:12 GMT

What puzzles me the most is the odd notion that the US is somehow involved in this or will be involved. Bush won't be touching this one. And the Russians wouldn't have acted if they didn't feel secure that the US won't intervene. Putin may be a ruthless son-of-a-***, but he's not dumb.

The second thing that puzzles me is the insistence of people to have an opinion based on war propaganda. For example the body count. It was pretty clear that 1,500 to 2,000 dead civilians is a very inflated figure. And still people repeated it without question, including Western media. And now reports are coming in that the Tskhinvali morgue has received only 44 bodies. Sure, not all the bodies will end up in the Tskhinvali morgue, but the number should be far higher.

I have no idea why people are choosing sides in a war based on politics. The only opinion people should have is the one that will end the war the fastest (and preferably not leaving some group of people in serfdom). But no. If you oppose US foreign policy, you are likely to lean towards Russia. If you oppose foreign expansionism in general (or are convinced your country has some divine destiny to spread democracy), you are likely to lean towards Georgia. I'm not saying this applies to everyone, but most people seem to have that knee-jerk reaction.

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

ama gi — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 01:18:58 GMT

Just heard the news:

U.S. troops have been sent into the middle of the Georgia conflict. You know, to deliver "humanitarian aid". Bush says that "This mission will be vigorous and ongoing" and called for Russia to withdraw.

What could possibly go wrong?

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

nhaag — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:55:13 GMT

Well, I am not too much enthused by those claims anyway. From neither side to be honest. If, say Argentinia, would declare that it is constitutional to defend the market price of argentinian beef world wide even by means of force, would that justify Argentinias aggression against, say the EU, because they sold argentinian beef under the market price?

If there wasn't anything valuable in Ossetia neither the russians not the georgian government would care about it. I am sure that the right of the people of Ossetia is not worth a second, not even a first, thought for both of them. As the right and security of the peoples of Irak is not worth a thought to the US government.

I do not buy in to a declaration that sides with one or the other conflicting party if states are involved. It is always propaganda to get enough human meat to send to the fields of slaughter for the increase of government power.

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

nhaag — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:46:03 GMT

Yes i agree and i understood what you meant. I only tried to give another point of view on the conflict as such.

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Stranger — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:08:16 GMT

nhaag:
Why bother about the fact that one robber fights with another robber over the booty. So i can not comprehend either that russia is right on the issue. They both fight over there right to rob people.

Russia offered the choice to apply for citizenship to Ossetians and they have chosen to do so in large numbers, meaning they really do want protection from Russia. It is also why Medvedev can claim that he is obliged by the constitution to protect Russian citizens by armed force.

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Parsidius — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:25:59 GMT

nhaag:

Why bother about the fact that one robber fights with another robber over the booty. So i can not comprehend either that russia is right on the issue. They both fight over there right to rob people.

Frankly, states will not survive much more ruling i hope

Oh, I'm not saying Russian intervention is justified; far from it. I am simply revelling in the fact that the Federal government's idea of "human rights" is so incredibly self-serving that it can be used to justify whatever it wants to do.

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Nitroadict — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:17:19 GMT

nhaag:

Why bother about the fact that one robber fights with another robber over the booty. So i can not comprehend either that russia is right on the issue. They both fight over there right to rob people.

Frankly, states will not survive much more ruling i hope

Doubtful, at least until/if self-collapse of Statism itself occurs, which may or may not involve a global government.

Until then, I am reminded of:

"It's progress, 'till there's nothing left to gain."

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

nhaag — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:37:31 GMT

Why bother about the fact that one robber fights with another robber over the booty. So i can not comprehend either that russia is right on the issue. They both fight over there right to rob people.

Frankly, states will not survive much more ruling i hope

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

ChaseCola — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 04:14:04 GMT

Israel good, Russia bad

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Stranger — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:38:29 GMT

Should not come as a shock. Neo-cons are about power, that is to say unlimited American superpower. Russia bringing one of its vassals back into the Empire without a word of protest from America must be infuriating.

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Parsidius — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:00:07 GMT

I love how one minute they allow Albanians to chase out Roma, Jews, Serbs, etc. out of Kosovo in the name of "self-determination," but are happy to let the Georgians push around South Ossettia. Remember, you only have rights if you are an ally of the Feds!

Re: Russia versus Gergia and Neo-Con irrationality

Jon Irenicus — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:57:33 GMT

This must be getting the Randroids all excited. Time for their champion of justice to go beat up some evil Reds!

-Jon