General

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Clayton — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 06:29:50 GMT

@Anarcho: Thanks for that - I've seen Pape's book mentioned in LRC articles - I'll have to read it.

Clayton -

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Anarcho-libertarian — Sat, 07 Apr 2012 05:14:07 GMT

Clayton:

Even the suicide bomber phenomenon is completely misrepresented. It's presented as some kind of inherent mind-control power of Islam to take emotionally vulnerable youths and turn them into maniacal automatons controlled by murderous mullahs. The fact is that suicide bombing is primarily motivated by the money. These are desperately poor people holed up in ghettos with little prospects of escape not only for themselves but for their extended family. Saddam Hussein was paying $25,000 a pop for suicide bombers. That's the equivalent of several million dollars to an American living in the inner city. They're doing it for the people they leave behind, to give them a chance in life. They're not crazy, they're not brainwashed, they're desperate. But the Mossad/MI6/CIA's lies continue to beam out to the masses 24/7.

I can agree with money being a motivator, but according to Robert Pape in his book Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, the most important element in getting someone willing to commit suicide terrorism is occupation by a foreign force. The terrorists want “to make modern democracies withdraw military forces from the territory the terrorists view as their homeland.” When the occupiers leave, the suicide campaign stops.

The only role religion plays in this struggle, according to Pape, is that the willingness of the occupied to resort to suicide attacks increases when the occupying army is made of people who come from far away, look different and believe differently due to the fear that their entire way of life will come under attack.

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Caley McKibbin — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 17:04:51 GMT

The only people that argue that the Quran is not a hateful screed against non-muslims are people that haven't read it. The most important passage:

Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe.

So, look at the worst punishments practiced within Islamic communities and extrapolate what you would expect as the treatment of non-muslims. The only thing that diminishes the mortal threat posed by believers of this book is the assumption that most people are too wimpy to do anything, sort of like how most KKK members did not personally lynch black people and most NSDAP members did not drive to the concentration camps to get in some target practice.

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

gotlucky — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 04:54:42 GMT

I'm saying they practice a butchered form of Islam that's very far removed from what Islam originally was. Islam NEVER calls for aggression.

Again, reading comprehension would be of great help to you. Anenome said the "Muslim world". He did not say "people who practice Islam in the way that F4M says is correct".

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Freedom4Me73986 — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 04:50:40 GMT

Look, I know enough about Islam to know that most of the world's Muslims do not practice Islam the way the followers of Muhammad did. Heads of state esp. butcher the religion. Go talk to any devout Muslim and they will confirm this.

So the Middle East is not the Muslim world? What is it then? Christian? Jewish? Atheist?

I'm saying they practice a butchered form of Islam that's very far removed from what Islam originally was. Islam NEVER calls for aggression. In fact I'd say Islam is way more libertarian then Christianity or Judaism. The Muslim God is the minarchist version of the Christian/Jewish god.

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

gotlucky — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 04:34:39 GMT

Look, I know enough about Islam to know that most of the world's Muslims do not practice Islam the way the followers of Muhammad did. Heads of state esp. butcher the religion. Go talk to any devout Muslim and they will confirm this.

So the Middle East is not the Muslim world? What is it then? Christian? Jewish? Atheist?

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Freedom4Me73986 — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 04:28:26 GMT

You need a strong dose of reading comprehension. Anenome said "the Muslim world". Are you telling me that the Muslim world observes the NAP? Really? The Saudi government observes the NAP? UAE? Yemen? really?

Look, I know enough about Islam to know that most of the world's Muslims do not practice Islam the way the followers of Muhammad did. Heads of state esp. butcher the religion. Go talk to any devout Muslim and they will confirm this.

Name me one time in history where the Caliphate attacked another state or people before they were attacked. I'm atheist myself but if I had to pick a religion it would be Islam.

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

gotlucky — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 04:04:27 GMT

@Clayton

Let the punishment fit the crime!

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Clayton — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 04:02:31 GMT

@gotlucky: Dismemberment in punishment for petty theft is not a form of aggression.

LOL

Clayton -

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

gotlucky — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 03:55:19 GMT

Islam already has a NAP. The Quran says not to attack anyone unless you are attacked. Compulsion doesn't exist in Islam. If your doing something forbidden God will take notice.

You need a strong dose of reading comprehension. Anenome said "the Muslim world". Are you telling me that the Muslim world observes the NAP? Really? The Saudi government observes the NAP? UAE? Yemen? really?

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Freedom4Me73986 — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 03:46:37 GMT

The muslim world needs a strong does of the NAP.

Islam already has a NAP. The Quran says not to attack anyone unless you are attacked. Compulsion doesn't exist in Islam. If your doing something forbidden God will take notice.

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Marko — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:37:28 GMT

But yeah, my brother-in-law is enlisted in the military and he just started parroting this "Islam is violent" crap a few months back. The ranks are fed the most undiluted propaganda. That's part of the reason I wrote the OP... I realized from conversations with him that the US government is launching an active campaign of anti-Muslim sentiment. It's been there since 9/11 (and even before) but this latest one is just flat-out propaganda bullshit. Interpolating from conversations with my bro-in-law, I gather that the ranks are being told "Muslims are violent and intent on taking over the world, they must be stopped at any cost."

The ranks are also being told they should become fundamentalist Protestants or they will burn in hell, but that doesn't mean DC decided to launch a campaign to make the army as Evangelical as possible. Something can become instituonalized and remain informal. There can be an ethos that pervades an institution without that sentiment having the support or approval of the central government the institution is subordinate to.

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Clayton — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:34:26 GMT

Iran's constitution says something to the effect of that they exist for the purpose of, or promise to, destroy Israel.

Bullshit. Cite it.

And you, Clayton, are claiming that it's the Pentagon and Israel that want to destroy Iran? Please? Sheer propaganda.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Asserting that Iran's constitution says anything about Iran existing to destroy Israel is sheer propaganda.

If Israel were not threatened, they would not be harming anyone.

Yes, you're right, there is not a running apartheid in Gaza.

The muslim world needs a strong does of the NAP.

Wow, that must be a joke. After the US, UK, Europe and NATO have invaded and bombed two Muslim nations, precipitating social upheaval resulting in the deaths of many more innocents than were ever killed by Saddam Hussein, and instigated the toppling of half a dozen of their own puppet regimes in the so-called "Arab Spring"; a bloody process which is still under way.

Clayton -

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Anenome — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:19:39 GMT

Iran's constitution says something to the effect of that they exist for the purpose of, or promise to, destroy Israel. And you, Clayton, are claiming that it's the Pentagon and Israel that want to destroy Iran? Please? Sheer propaganda. If Israel were not threatened, they would not be harming anyone. The muslim world needs a strong does of the NAP.

Re: Demonization of Muslims and Islam

Clayton — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:28:58 GMT

For those with a hard-on for bombing Iran (h/t LRC):

(Please visit the site to view this media)

The Pentagon and Tel Aviv want to reduce those beautiful people to this:

Clayton -