General

Re: Who was the worst president?

ChaseCola — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 04:48:43 GMT

1. FDR

2. Wilson

3. Lincoln(would be #1, but he did free the slaves)

4. Obama

Re: Who was the worst president?

Ghost_of_Brutus — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 05:31:05 GMT

I'm glad to see someone finally fingered the false libertarians in the bunch. We can debate for hours as to which commie (FDR) or fascist (Lincoln & Bush 2) did the most dammage. However, we should all be particularly incensed when, under the banner of Liberty, a politician (or anyone else for that matter) promotes policies which are diametrically opposed to the concept of Liberty. I venture to say that we have not seen the last of such hoaxes.

While we're at it, let's add Jackson. No true libertarian could ever condone the Indian Removal Act.

And how about a few non-presidential political figures: Gingrich, McCain, Schwarzenegger, Greenspan, Bernacke. The Republican Party is as full of false libertarians as the Democratic Party is of closet commies. (Okay, now I'm just ranting and getting off subject...but it needed to be said.)

Re: Who was the worst president?

Old Hop — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:47:36 GMT

"A moral stream cannot rise above its source."

Lincoln was the worst because his presidency fully realized the nationalism of Hamilton & Clay. TR, Wilson, FDR, et. al. merely carry the apostasy to further manifestations.

Re: Who was the worst president?

God of the Machine — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:32:09 GMT

Byzantine,

If you re-read my original post you'll see that I gave two set's of answers.The first set of answers, which included Harding, was judging Presidents more on standards outside of ideological judgements. So your second question is either misguided or simply an intentional strawman - because it is quite easy regardless of political ideology to judge Harding as an incompetent, negligent, philandering, drunk.Hopefully, you can see the difference.Concerning the historical record of harding, where to begin…….The non-ideological based issues relating to Harding’s ethics and/or competence: 1). Thomas Miller, Harding’s Chairman of the office of Alien Property, was found guilty of selling the assets (essential intellectual property) which he was assigned the fiduciary responsibility to return after the WWI to American business interests. 2). Hired cover-up, like Jess Smith, on the taxpayer’s bill in order to follow him around and cover-up for his personal trangressions. In the Jess Smith case primarily regarding his prolific philandering activities. Smith was facing criminal charges and choose to execute himself instead of standing trial. It’s worth noting that he was almost certainly the homseexual lover of the very married Harry M. Daughtery also, and most likely facilitated his bootlegging ventures. 3). Charles Forbes, director of Veteran Affairs (which it is notable that this was a federal bureau created by Harding himself), was found guilty of embezzling approximately $250 million dollars from the agency he was hired by Harding to manage and secure. For my dollar, this was the worst scandal of the Harding side-show. 4). Harding and the Republican Party paid “hush money” to Caroline F. Phillips in order to guarantee her silence regarding her affair with Harding during his Senate years. 5). Albert Fall, Harding’s Secretary of the Interior, accepted bribes from oil companies in order to obtain access to lands understood to possess oil and was convicted and sent to prison. It’s also pretty obvious that he obstructed the investigation by destroying evidence over the long period of time that the investigation took place. In today’s environment, he would still be serving time. 6). Bureau of Investigation (the precursor to the FBI) agent Gaston Means, is on record claiming that Harding was present at the manslaughter/murder of a prostitute who was hit in the head with a bottle thrown during a “table dance”. 7). Hired bootleggers, most notable Mort Mortimer, to illegally run liquor to the white itself – whilst it was of course enforcing a prohibition on the plebes! 8). Attorney General Harry M. Daugherty and Jess Smith were involved in a scandal accusing them of accepting bribes from bootleggers. Although neither was ever convicted since Smith committed suicide before charges were pressed (although Daugherty was still tried twice I believe for defrauding the government). Again, aside from any ideological judgments, Harding remains the most personally immoral character imaginable. He was a philandering, lying (in his personal life-not just pblic, where we expect as much), incompetent, criminally negligent (imo), drunk; who showed no respect for himself, the office he held, or the heritage he represented. Unless one finds these traits honourable, it’s difficult to accept Harding as anything but another dismal blotch in Presidential history. And now to again shift back to the ideological front, he was amidst all this no defender of liberalism. He voted in favor of America entering WWI (I’m 99% certain of this), supported a World Court, pandered to nativist tendencies, and through his administrations history of cronyism prepared the public opinion to eat up anti-business/pro-statism crap that was coming during the Great Depression. GotM

Re: Who was the worst president?

God of the Machine — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 02:36:00 GMT

A lot of us liberal/libertarian folks forget what the Harding Presidency was really all about. It was never really about minimal gov't, although after Wilson it's easy to confuse it as being so designed. Harding was a man of average ability that stumbled into a job he neither really wanted nor was prepared for. Sort of a Dubya for the last century. As such an uninterested occupant, he had more scandals in his white house than any administration since......well, since this current abomination. If he, or dubya for that matter, were/are indeed unaware of what was going on around them well that still speaks to their ability. I cannot call that "successful" by any measure. And I don't give brownie points to someone for being to blissfully benign.

Anyway, didn't he support a world court just the same? I really think you're giving him too much credit for an ideology that just didn't exist - but I understand your perspective. After WorldWarWilson he can seem like a liberal at first blush.

The more I think about it though, the more he does remind me of Dubya. The only reason I didn't mention THAT clown is because my vision is a little blurred with disgust right now. :)

Re: Who was the worst president?

Mark B. — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:43:03 GMT

Harding made my list of successful Presidents, #4 to be precise. He had no knowledge of Teapot Dome and in the scheme of things it was a relatively minor scandal anyhow. He kept his nose out of foreign entanglements and did basically NOTHING, other than to run the daily affairs of government. He did not try to solve America's problems, he kept the government out of peoples business. Sounds like a DAMN fine President in my book. :)

Re: Who was the worst president?

God of the Machine — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:26:52 GMT

Harding or Nixon have to be considered the worst, while trying to control for one's ideology.

Without trying to control for one's ideological disposition, we gotta' say {WWI}lson, don't we????

LOL

Re: Who was the worst president?

clarkd90 — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:09:17 GMT

1) Lincoln - the Grandfather of big government and flagrant disregard for American lives.

2) FDR - he gave half of christian europe to the communists.

3) Woodrow Wilson - world democracy indeed

4) Jimmy Carter - let's show them what a Trilateral president can do!

5) Taft. Just kidding. Dubya. At least Wilson didn't giggle so much about it.

Re: Who was the worst president?

reidbump — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 06:00:01 GMT

I agree that all of the presidents mentioned were definitely all very bad, but I would have to say Colonel Edward Mandall House. He was a president...wasn't he?

Re: Who was the worst president?

Parsidius — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 04:45:32 GMT

Lincoln, for sure. Welfare statist, racist, anti-immigrant, warmonger, kleptocrat... does he have any redeeming feature(s)?

Re: Who was the worst president?

kmartjesus — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:06:16 GMT

I know I'm late to the game here, but I have to choose Woodrow Wilson for reasons mentioned already.

Re: Who was the worst president?

JAlanKatz — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 04:31:31 GMT

A Great Grandson of the Confederacy:
Essentially the south decided to go to war because they realized that as free states grew in number the slave holding regions would be far out numbered by the free.

Pardon me, I realize I am showing my great ignorance by disagreeing with you, but the South did not decide to go to war, although individual Southern states decided to secede. The Constitution was an agreement entered into for mutual benefit of the states, and states retained the power to leave the contract should it no longer be beneficial. There was also a remedy for difficulties short of secession, namely nullification. When the Southern states nullified the tariff, Lincoln promised an invasion - for the sole purpose of collecting the tariff. He promised repeatedly that, if the tariff is collected, there will be no invasion, regardless of slavery.

To draw a parallel to your claim, imagine that a woman decides to leave her husband, and he in return beats her senseless. Will you inform us that she started the fight, that to blame him is wrong, and that "in actuality she was a hawk who started the fight by standing up to his abuses?"

A Great Grandson of the Confederacy:
We must in order to enjoy liberty and the persuit of happiness accecpt its noble responsibilities. Society today does not have the moxie to govern itself, for Life Liberty and self governance require responsibility and self restraint, young men and women today do not understand this, to create anew the lofty ideals of our founding fathers we must accept that action without consequences cannot exist or be promoted, we must restrain our lower angels and raise our sons and daughters to do the same.

And how did we arrive in a world where young men and women behave like this? I suppose it has nothing to do with government schooling, or the welfare state and its destruction of the family - and so the solution cannot be to eliminate government, can it?