General

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

MaikU — Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:24:17 GMT

Atheism and anti-theism are not synonyms. Atheism is about the lack of particular belief, anti-theism is about fighting other beliefs, sometimes with force. Capitalism is MO of nature. It's not a system.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Lady Saiga — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:32:55 GMT

Well stated, Neo, thank you. I didn't really want to write a novel on the subject. I'm not all that versed in philosophy of religion, because most of the issues it deals with are specific to the All Powerful All Loving Monotheistic Creator God type of theology. That worldview has too many contradictions to attract me.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Neodoxy — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:19:36 GMT

"I can't say I agree with Neo about the nonsense thing. Faith and hunches and so on move a lot of ground worldwide...if it does no harm and it creates happiness or inspires lines of thinking for art, literature, music, or even empirical research, it's not nonsense. The whole realm of the imagination above and beyond the strictly true dimension of human life is what adds color to our experiences."

I understand what you mean. Let me restate this: It makes no sense to believe in god and to call other people fools because they don't believe in him when you have no reason to believe he exists beyond a hunch. If we based all our beliefs in this way at least three fourths of the world's population would be dead. A personal belief, sure, but when it becomes a political belief it is nonesense.

Also, standards for empirical verification are more complex then you might think. Everything around us could be an empirical verification of god. What sucks from the standpoint of empirically verifying/disproving god is that the fact that in order to be effective a hypothesis must be disprovable. Because god is omnipotent, then if he doesn't want us to perceive him he is unperceivable and therefore his existence is impossible to prove while at the same time he is impossible to disprove because with this same knowledge we know that he could just not want to be perceived. Even if we drop the omnipotence claim, we still have no idea exactly what would verify or falsify our results, although your right that if we were ourselves omnipotent then we could verify or falsify the existence of god through experimentation and observation, but until we reach that state... Technically Impossible :(

All we can prove is that there's not an omnipotent god who's trying to be perceived by humankind.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

RobinHood — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:16:21 GMT

Verily, I spoke too soon. Nothing against the honorable other member.

But to the heart of the idea being discussed, what experiment would verify the existence of God? What has been observed that shows His existence?

Full disclosure: I believe in God. But not because of a repeatable experiment.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Lady Saiga — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 19:58:07 GMT

So, you're criticizing me for not criticizing another member??

Empirical: information gathered by means of experimentation or observation. Either God (presumably a monotheistic creator-god, based on the conversation) exists, or he doesn't. Wouldn't that make it a matter that could be empirically verified?

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

RobinHood — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 19:46:04 GMT

First of all, how could you let "God exists is an empirical fact" just slip by unchallenged?

Aren't you supposed to send away the court jesters?

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Lady Saiga — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 19:37:25 GMT

Hokay...out with it, then. Where's the argument? En garde!

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

RobinHood — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 19:29:51 GMT

I distinctly thought I heard a "guard yourself for true" coming from RobinHood awhile back.

Thou didst, indeed.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Lady Saiga — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:40:21 GMT

I distinctly thought I heard a "guard yourself for true" coming from RobinHood awhile back. Nothing?

I can't say I agree with Neo about the nonsense thing. Faith and hunches and so on move a lot of ground worldwide...if it does no harm and it creates happiness or inspires lines of thinking for art, literature, music, or even empirical research, it's not nonsense. The whole realm of the imagination above and beyond the strictly true dimension of human life is what adds color to our experiences.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Neodoxy — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:31:24 GMT

The existence of god is an empirical fact. Praxeology is a science dealing with the necessary implications of human action. Mises never said that only a priori knowledge was correct, just under certain circumstances. Most athiests know only too well that you cannot disprove the existence of god in his apparent absence, but you can't disprove the existence of unicorns by their apparent absence, the belief in something for which there is no evidence, but merely no evidence refuting it, is nonsensical.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Lady Saiga — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 15:42:44 GMT

What?

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

RobinHood — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 15:41:21 GMT

Keep that helmet on, cause you are hereby challenged to a joust.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

RobinHood — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 15:32:49 GMT

That something must be capable of causing itself.

Anyone see a flaw there?

That something caused everything (as everything followed from the first cause), hence fits the definition of God.

Of course, it may be the Devil or Satan who did it all, or some unsentient being, or a Big Bang, or some physical thing. What if at the root of it all lies a gas. Should we all pray to ammonia molecules? In other words, the usual attributes of God don't follow.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Lady Saiga — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:52:13 GMT

There are SO many flaws in that attempt at logic. It's actually tiring to think of responding to them all. Let me focus only on one of them. Atheism does not require that the atheist support the elimination of religion. In fact, a number of religions are still open to the atheist, such as my own. Religion and theism are not the same thing. So the only thing you're saying in terms of atheism itself, is that an atheist who actually wants to get rid of all religions in the world would be lying if they called themselves a libertarian.

Re: Is Atheism Compatible with Capitalism.

Autolykos — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:24:38 GMT

I have my own philosophy of atheism that is compatible with capitalism and libertarianism.