General

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

Al_Gore the Idiot — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:20:32 GMT

I agree that young Americans, particulary students, can typically get loud, drunk, and obnoxious. This is common in the touristy Europeans cities. I find the Americans (though few) I meet in the off-the-beaten countries such as Ukraine, Tunisia, and Morocco far more mature.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:37:28 GMT

@ Aristippus

Ah, I see. Thank you very much for the information.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:32:43 GMT

@ Wheylous

So THAT'S why you had German on your shirt.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

Aristippus — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:31:08 GMT

Various duties to the state, society and gods, duties implied by traditional virtues, engaging in an unfulfilling cycle of work and consumption for reasons of social status.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

Wheylous — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:30:28 GMT

In my experience as a non-American, Americans are treated very well in Europe.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:25:31 GMT

What are these "conventional sacrifices" that you speak of?

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

Aristippus — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:18:59 GMT

How is that contradictory? They did what they pleased - what they thought would bring them happiness - rather than making conventional sacrifices for little or no gain.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:11:35 GMT

I see. But you said yourself that the Cyrenaics did what they pleased. Correct me if I'm putting what you said in the wrong context.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

Aristippus — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:00:36 GMT

All it really means is not making pointless sacrifices, but rather doing what you understand to contribute to your actual happiness rather than just blindly doing whatever. Anyway, in regard to specific 'pleasures', I tend to find fairly simple things most enjoyable (probably because they also come at the least cost, i.e. sacrifice with little reward).

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:53:47 GMT

I would just be worried that living a hedonistic lifestyle, even in the traditional sense as you said, might lead to the disappearence of things considered pleasurable due to those exact things becoming the norm. Kind of like in Tao De Ching, when Laozi says "all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness."

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

Aristippus — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:46:28 GMT

I think I prefer the Cyrenaics.

Yeah, they were pretty cool guys. They philosophized and worked out all day, and generally did as they pleased.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:43:15 GMT

I think I prefer the Cyrenaics.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

Aristippus — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:40:52 GMT

They were both hedonistic in that they identified pleasure (Greek: hedone) as the ultimate good (as opposed, e.g. to simply being 'virtuous' somehow), and pain as the ultimate evil. To Cyrenaics, pleasure means the absence of pain, plus something pleasurable (initially the emphasis was on bodily pleasures, but others emphasised mental pleasures). To Epicureans, it is theoretically just the absence of pain. In practice they are pretty much the same, really.

I'm not an ancient Greek, so here's my perspective: Ancient Greeks known for being hedonists.

Really? I thought they were known for being Spartan.

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

gotlucky — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:36:39 GMT

Aristippus:

I'm not an American, so here's my perspective: American tourists are known for being loud, annoying, bossy, and wearing typical tourist clothes (shorts etc.). If there is any anti-American sentiment, it has very little if anything to do with politics.

I'm not an ancient Greek, so here's my perspective: Ancient Greeks known for being hedonists.

BOOM!

Re: Anti-American sentiment during travel overseas

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:34:26 GMT

Wasn't the Cyrenaic school ultra-hedonistic and the Epicurean school mildly hedonistic?