General

Re: Medical School

gcopenhaver — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:20:56 GMT

I know there's a few colleges in the country that don't accept government money at all, and have gotten a lot of voluntary support from their community to do private financial aid, and have been very successful in doing so. Hillsdale college in Michigan is one example, but I don't think there's many colleges that do this. Outside of that, it's somewhat difficult to find private financial aid for college, but I think it certainly exists. If anyone finds some good websites about it, please post them.

Re: Medical School

ViennaSausage — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:01:13 GMT

I understand your dilemma, and wanting to stick to principle. I too am looking for solution to this, going to school without the monetary aid from the federal government. I admire Ron Paul for sending his kids to college sans federal government funds.

Re: Medical School

Jon Irenicus — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:25:13 GMT

but in the case of most or all government programs, this is impossible.

Why let it go to waste? It's a fait accompli.

-Jon

Re: Medical School

gcopenhaver — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:56:34 GMT

I don't think that's a good enough analogy to come up with any real answers. Are you assuming the players are forced to play, or is it entirely voluntary? How do they determine that it's "wrong" to get three points for shooting baskets beyond a certain point? Where is the coercion in this analogy? Where are any moral issues in this analogy? Or is this from a moral relativistic perspective? (I think morals are absolute)

I'm talking about morality, and the coercion of other people, not arbitrary rules in a mere game. I'm talking about real life people having property stolen from them, and others willingly accepting the stolen property from the thieves knowingly. I think the best thing that could be done is take the property and return it to it's owners, but in the case of most or all government programs, this is impossible. I think the next best thing would be to not take the property at all, and teach others about the injustice and work to end such unjust systems. Whatever ends I want to accomplish in my life should be through my own means and by any voluntary charity of others, not through a coercive system. If that means I can't do as much as I could otherwise, then so be it. I have no right to a college degree. If I have the means to get one, then great, and if I don't, then I don't get one. The ends do not justify the means.

I'm not trying to dismiss the idea that it might be ok, I just need a solid explanation as to why it's ok. I can't just accept that it's ok because some person on a forum said so. I need some reasoning. I could very well be wrong, but I can't just accept that I'm wrong because someone happens to disagree with me.

Re: Medical School

Stranger — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:58:24 GMT

gcopenhaver:
Isn't it a bit hypocritical to use financial aid when you're against the existence of it, and against all the immoral and tyrannical things done to fund it? And, despite however minute an individuals participation is, doesn't using it help reinforce or perpetuate it's existence?

Let's say we are playing basketball, and we think that the rule that says you get three points for doing a basket from far is wrong. Is it hypocritical to do three-pointers in a game?

Re: Medical School

gcopenhaver — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:29:21 GMT

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to use financial aid when you're against the existence of it, and against all the immoral and tyrannical things done to fund it? And, despite however minute an individuals participation is, doesn't using it help reinforce or perpetuate it's existence? Doesn't it provide those in favor of financial aid (you could apply this to any kind of welfare) with more reason to push for it's existence and expansion? The very existence of it creates dependency on it, but then isn't the dependency used, at least in part, to "justify" it's existence? Does it not encourage them to expand it when more people use it, thus expanding the theft of other people? Are you not just benefiting at the expense of others when you willingly participate? Isn't that the very thing most of us here are against?

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'll listen to that mp3 to see what they have to say. If anyone knows of anymore articles or anything else that says I'm wrong, I'd love to read them...it could save me a lot of money, and I could get college done faster (I'm going part-time right now). At this point, though, I see little reason to think that it's just and moral to participate in filing for and receiving any financial aid or any other welfare. I don't have a problem with handouts (feel free to send me money for college if you want, lol), but I don't want to take money that was stolen from someone else.

Re: Medical School

Stranger — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:48:04 GMT

Just think of it this way. If government didn't impose medical school in order to obtain a license to practice medicine, you could become a doctor while apprenticing in a hospital, never getting into any debt.

Not only should you not get any other job to pay for your mandatory education, you should milk the system for every penny.

Re: Medical School

Saiphes — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:03:38 GMT

I recall that several mises.org media describe this bit of guilt as unnecessary.

Dr. Walter Block addresses this about 4:50 into this interview:

http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/interviews/Block_10-12-2008.mp3

We all use roads, public schools, etc. After that, he references Atlas Shrugged, Ragnar Daneskjold and his steeling from govt - you can't steal from a thief.

Medical School

Steve — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:09:47 GMT

Are there methods of paying your way through college without wasting tax payer's money? To my understanding a lot of the financial aid services provided are actually funded by the tax payers. Is this true? If so, how can I get different services in which I would not be stealing?

I'm currently a double major in Biology and Chemistry and I plan on attending Medical School as soon as I'm finished up. I'm going to have a job, but that is not enough to pay for all college services in addition to living expenses. It would be rough working two full time jobs and doing a double major/medical school at the same time. The estimate debt a medical student has by the time they graduate is roughtly $150,000. I would like to be debt-free by the time I finish, if at all possible. Will I just have to buckle down, give up sleep, and work two full time jobs while attending school full time? It'll be rough, but I'll do it if necessary.