Economics Questions

Re: surveys and socialism

gocrew — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:30:16 GMT

Something similar to surveys was done during WW I. Army generals were ordering from their wish lists and delivery was backed up and the transportation system was clogged up, so the government decided to allow the generals to expedite orders for emergencies.

I prefer to keep you in suspense about what happened next.

Re: surveys and socialism

nirgrahamUK — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:09:50 GMT

rather than ripping his head off you could maybe insist that he do yard work for you (or get his head ripped off for refusing.)

get socialists to work for you !

Re: surveys and socialism

MatthewF — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:36:50 GMT

Solomon:

Ask her what would motivate people to work hard when everything is given them by the state anyway, or conversely what would motivate them to work when they can't keep what they produce.

Of course, one can't realistically expect that to lead anywhere, seeing as socialists don't believe in human action.

I had a very similar conversation with someone the other day. It eventually degenerated to the point where he admitted that people would have to be forced to work and should be killed if they refuse. He actually said that this would be a better world than one in which people peacefully coexist with each other. I had to walk away because I wanted to rip his head off...

Re: surveys and socialism

scineram — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:37:32 GMT

eliotn:
I guess I should give up trying to refute her, LOL.

There is nothing to refute I would say.

Re: surveys and socialism

ProudCapitalist — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:40:55 GMT

That's the meeting I mentioned above! She doesn't mean "work" hard, but "meet" hard:

Talk it over everybody, do it now. Be friends and figure out how everything should be distributed and organized, everybody together, with no money or trading but only talk, talk and talk!

It's much more serious than a motivational problem. Even if everyone in the whole world was a committed communist, they couldn't figure out how to produce anything similiar to any industrial good invented during the last 100 years or so. Even 19th century agriculture would crumble severly under such a regime of non-choice and non-pricing, since crucial economic information would be non-created and absent from everyones decision process.

Re: surveys and socialism

Solomon — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:14:25 GMT

Ask her what would motivate people to work hard when everything is given them by the state anyway, or conversely what would motivate them to work when they can't keep what they produce.

Of course, one can't realistically expect that to lead anywhere, seeing as socialists don't believe in human action.

Re: surveys and socialism

eliotn — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:19:04 GMT

I told her this refutation, that not everything can be provided, but then she responded, "This isn't true if people work hard together." WTF?

I guess I should give up trying to refute her, LOL.

Re: surveys and socialism

John Ess — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:49:39 GMT

Dear State:

Here is my list of things I want for Christmas from the collective warehouse this month...

some ponies (must be cute and also fast), cherry licorice, a bomb-proof SUV that's been "pimped", pay-per-view but not so much with the paying part, subscription to Thai Ladyboys Monthly, a jacuzzi with jets, one of those beds that will move my back up and down when I watch my shows, an IV in my arm one of those space food sets, and some adult diapers so I can give "according to my ability." I want a bowling alley in my house!

Thanks ahead of time.

Your Comrade, John Ess

Re: surveys and socialism

nazgulnarsil — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:13:14 GMT

sentiments such as this come up all the time and you know what? there are so many valid refutations of communism that just completely destroy it. that doesn't matter to progressives though. when has truth ever mattered?

I've seen 12 year olds with no prior knowledge refute the labor theory of value. it's the biggest joke in the history of the world. it would be funny if it hadn't already killed 100 million people.

Re: surveys and socialism

ProudCapitalist — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:57:07 GMT

All the knowledge of what everyone wants and how everything can be manufactured, obviously resides with in the sum of all human beings, right? So why not simply sit down together everyone and TALK IT ALL THROUGH?

I think that it's basically that alternative to individual liberty and trading (the price system) which collectivists vaguely hope for. It needs to be challenged. Phrasing it the right way, even people who don't care about philosophy or know anything about history or the monetary system, will quickly understand that non-capitalism is simply impossibly impractical. Mises "Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth" is an icebreaker, one of the most important books in history. It needs to be popularized, shortened and simplified in language now 100 years later. Maybe a Study Guide for it (as already exists for Human Action) would be a very good idea? Salernos postscript to it is very welcome.

I'd very much like to see this particular point made by AE being developed. It definitely takes the debate between socialism and capitalism beyond "do you like it or not" to "it is impossible".

http://mises.org/econcalc.asp

Re: surveys and socialism

hayekianxyz — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:34:58 GMT

On second thoughts, I've got a better answer:

"What about the trees?"

Re: surveys and socialism

hayekianxyz — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:16:10 GMT

Preference is only revealed in action.

Re: surveys and socialism

nameless — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:52:25 GMT

haha I actually smirked when I read this. Maybe an explanation of the moral hazard should be enough.

Re: surveys and socialism

Solomon — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:43:24 GMT

Imaginary Socialist Survey:

Rate on a scale of '0' to '10' how much stuff you need the state to give you, '0' being nothing, '10' being everything.

Yep, can't go wrong with this. Clearly she's thought this out in great detail. After all, scarcity is only an illusion invented by greedy capitalists who wish to oppress society with their competition, machinery, and high-quality goods.

I hereby retract everything I've ever said about central planners.

[/sarcasm]

Re: surveys and socialism

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:35:54 GMT

would you like a vehicle?

*ferrari please

would you like a house?

*3 please, whitehouse quality, buckingham palace quality, and neverlandstyleeee

would you like nice clothes?

*etc etc. etc.

of course, *demanding* things (without money) is easy. allocating resources for production, and doing the delivery is teh hard partz/