Economics Questions

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

Spideynw — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:15:18 GMT

limitgov:

If issuing your own currency itself is not illegal, why did they confiscate and force the people who made the Ron Paul gold coin dollar to stop?

Did you see Harksaw's post? It is illegal to issue your own coin.

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

Mibu Clan — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:38:26 GMT

Anobody here heard of the Liberty Dollar?

It was backed by Silver, and the Treasury deemed their business completely legal

The Feds shut them down

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

ProudCapitalist — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:38:01 GMT

american.swan:
The coin says "$50" on it. So you paid your worker "$50". The government didn't like that. The IRS wanted the guy to pay taxes due for the value of the gold coin. But the jury turned the government down.

The gold in such a coin is probably worth almost 50 times its face value. With such coins, one can do tax free business! Every time it changes hands, the gov't looses the tax rate (on that type of transaction) times the gold value of that coin minus $50. With 30% tax rate that is about $700. And every coin could be transacted 1000s of times every day... What a loop hole!

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

american.swan — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 01:58:28 GMT

Do your business in US issued Gold and silver coins. A Nevada man did. He was declared innocent of any tax wrong doings by a jury.

The coin says "$50" on it. So you paid your worker "$50". The government didn't like that. The IRS wanted the guy to pay taxes due for the value of the gold coin. But the jury turned the government down. Also, the government accountants in the case when cross examined by the defence couldn't give any laws or codes that pertained to the situation at hand. The "government expert witnesses" looked foolish to the jury. The IRS accountants had never seen such a case before and couldn't answer the defences questions.

I promise you the IRS code and US laws will in the future fix this "gold $50 coin" error to make sure you pay the street value in taxes. But as far as I know, the laws haven't been fixed yet. So if your employer pays you in $50 US mint gold coinage, you file your taxes stating that you made less then $50 a week.

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

fuman — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:17:25 GMT

I mentioned earlier that taxes are going to be the problem, which is why those who have keep it at a 1 to 1 with the dollar or some simple multiple, making it just an alternate instead of a replacement currency.No on e said that creating your own currency with a changing exchange rate was going to be easy, and that might be why people have not done it. That is the difference between possible and probable.

The easiest would be to pull a John Galt and start a society out of view of the government and then make your own currency. Or take over your own island nation and make your ideal society.

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

nazgulnarsil — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 06:20:20 GMT

fuman:
It would be hard or impossible for the government to legally stop you from issueing a town or state currency

they can stop you easily. all they have to do is force you to account for everything in US dollars for tax purposes. if you refuse you are arrested for tax evasion. if you comply...well everyone who uses the currency has to keep track of the exchange rate of your dollars to US dollars and then calcualate taxes based on that. Who is going to do that?

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

BioTube — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 04:11:26 GMT

It seems the law only bans private coinage. However, the Secret Service has been known to bust makers of pink dollar-looking slips of paper. Granted people don't pay much attention to the currency, I highly doubt a pink slip of paper would slip by(real bucks are made from preworn denim and fresh linen).

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

fuman — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:40:11 GMT

limitgov:

If issuing your own currency itself is not illegal, why did they confiscate and force the people who made the Ron Paul gold coin dollar to stop?

My bet would be because of the marketing of the dollar and the government took the view that they are presenting it as official US currency. I know they are not, but it all depends on the presentation. The real sticking point is on the top of their site where they call it America's Inflation Proof Currency. It would be hard or impossible for the government to legally stop you from issueing a town or state currency that was marketed as non official currency or just a subsistute currency for that area.

I also think Ron Paul and his supporters scare the hell out of the government and they want to suppress and disenfranchise them. People who want actual freedom scare those who want power.

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

The Rev — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:37:22 GMT

MatthewWilliam:

Indeed, ProudCapitalist.

IIRC, the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act passed in the same year - 1913.

Coincidence?

Wow, no wonder 13 is such an unlucky number.

BTW, I am envisioning a future in which the main currency of choice is frequent flyer miles.

The Rev

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

limitgov — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:29:59 GMT

If issuing your own currency itself is not illegal, why did they confiscate and force the people who made the Ron Paul gold coin dollar to stop?

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

fuman — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:21:41 GMT

Like others have said, the Fed has a monopoly because of taxes, and they have a little thing on their currency that says it is good for all debts public and private. You can issue your own currency, and they can not go after you for it, but getting others to find value in it is tricky. There will be an exchange rate, or what is the point to having your own currency. There is a town in Iowa named Vedic City created by the Maharishi that started their own currency. I do not know if they still use it or if they went back to the dollar, but basically their currency is only good in their city and they need regular dollars when they deal with anyone outside of their city.

On the other hand, just about anything can be a competing or substitute currency. When you do something for trade, those become currency. There is always the tax issue though.

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

Harksaw — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:45:49 GMT

US Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25,

§ 486. Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000486----000-.html

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

jimmy — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 08:34:56 GMT

scineram:
Yes. There was income tax way before 1913, since the war of northern aggression.

And there were monkeys in the Congo. I'm quite good at this - we should chat some time.

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

scineram — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:43:24 GMT

MatthewWilliam:

Indeed, ProudCapitalist.

IIRC, the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act passed in the same year - 1913.

Coincidence?

Yes. There was income tax way before 1913, since the war of northern aggression.

Re: Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

nazgulnarsil — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 01:58:22 GMT

Correct, fiat money does not work without taxation. With a tax the government has a catchall "evading taxes" law with which to prevent any competition.