Economics Questions

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

BioTube — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 02:15:13 GMT

JonBostwick:
Not true. If you own the Mona Lisa and it is stolen, then later find it in the possession of another, you are still the owner and you have the right to reclaim it. It doesn't matter if its in the possession of the original thief or of another whom the thief gave it to.

I never said anything about getting the watch back - I said I can't just take him out. Granted, I'd probably have to prove it in court either way since the new owner of the watch would want proof and the new owner of the Mona Lisa would never just give it back without coercion. As to whether printing unauthorized copies constitutes harm, I think that if a company had spent large sums of money getting ready to open a new market just to but undercut shortly before the book went on sale, there could be a case. I have no idea what a free market remedy would be, though(a cut of the revenue?).

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

DBratton — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:59:13 GMT

TLP:
1) Stolen work causes provable harm to the creator.

Now you are begging the question aren't you? In your first post you asked if it was theft. Now you are just presuming that it is.

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

Bostwick — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:58:04 GMT

DBratton:

Knight_of_BAAWA:
It's fraud.

But only if you are believed.

I really enjoy the fake rolex example. When people buy a fake rolex, they know what exactly what they are getting.

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

DBratton — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:56:09 GMT

Knight_of_BAAWA:
It's fraud.

But only if you are believed.

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

Bostwick — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:51:31 GMT

TLP:

Is it theft for me to put my name on a book I didn't write, on a song I didn't sing, on a game I didn't create, etc.?

Your scenario is too ambiguous to prove anything.

Is it illegal for me to buy a copy of Human Action, sign my name on the front cover, then sell it to Paul Krugman for 25 cents? Obviously not.

Are you asking should it be illegal for me to buy a printing press, and print copies of Human Action with a new cover that says written by Jon Bostwick, and then store them in my basement?That can't be a crime there is no victim.

Generally people who think it should be illegal for me to sell copies of Human Action that I've printed myself, think it should be illegal regardless of whom I put as the author.

Are you of the opinion that its okay for me to print and sell my own copies of Harry Potter so long as I put J.K Rowling?

Selling burned copies of a CD(or printed copies of a book) can not be stealing as the person who recorded the CD is not deprived of anything. How can they be robbed when they have not been separated from anything?

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

Bostwick — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:42:26 GMT

BioTube:
However, I can't just take him out - I have to catch him and prove both that HE stole the watch and it is indeed my watch he was wearing

Not true. If you own the Mona Lisa and it is stolen, then later find it in the possession of another, you are still the owner and you have the right to reclaim it. It doesn't matter if its in the possession of the original thief or of another whom the thief gave it to.

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

Bostwick — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:20:10 GMT

TLP:

It might be fraud between the buyer and the seller. What if the buyer isn't interested in the identity of the seller and just wants the product?

Isn't the original creator of the work entitled to anything?

A positive right? My goodness, no.

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

BioTube — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:55:49 GMT

Let's say I run a watch store. One day, a thief in a ski mask steals a watch. The next, I see somebody wearing the watch. However, I can't just take him out - I have to catch him and prove both that HE stole the watch and it is indeed my watch he was wearing. The same principal applies to theft of IP, except that mere theft is not actionable(fanfics are illegal under most copyright systems). Simply put, I have to prove that the IP thief did indeed use my ideas and that he used them to cause me harm. Now, the case where I don't suffer by the thief gets rich selling my stolen ideas(say, selling fanfics commercially) is someting different altogether; whether it's actionable, I don't know.

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

TLP — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:50:08 GMT

There's another problem:

1) Stolen work causes provable harm to the creator.

2) Competition causes provable harm to the creator.

How do you draw the line?

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

BioTube — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:40:47 GMT

This is one of the better aspects of intellectual property. However, the biggest problem with IP is that it's incredibly easy to take things too far. Now, if the stolen work caused real, provable harm to the creator, then there would be a case in any legal system.

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

TLP — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:26:26 GMT

It might be fraud between the buyer and the seller. What if the buyer isn't interested in the identity of the seller and just wants the product?

Isn't the original creator of the work entitled to anything?

Re: IP and selling someone else's work as your own

Knight_of_BAAWA — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:59:44 GMT

It's fraud.

IP and selling someone else's work as your own

TLP — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:39:34 GMT

Is it theft for me to put my name on a book I didn't write, on a song I didn't sing, on a game I didn't create, etc.?