Economics Questions

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Wilmot of Rochester — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:35:33 GMT

Esuric:

Yes, but, I've already explained why that's wrong. I suggest you read the theory of money and credit, it would cure you of your confusion.

I don't think you could explain why you're even continuing this.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Esuric — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 02:15:49 GMT

Wilmot of Rochester:

Spideynw:

Esuric:
How the hell did you come to this conclusion?

Because money is just like any other commodity. It has a supply/demand curve.

Esuric,

This is my answer.

Yes, but, I've already explained why that's wrong. I suggest you read the theory of money and credit, it would cure you of your confusion.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Wilmot of Rochester — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 02:01:55 GMT

Spideynw:

Esuric:
How the hell did you come to this conclusion?

Because money is just like any other commodity. It has a supply/demand curve.

Esuric,

This is my answer.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Spideynw — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:31:08 GMT

Wilmot of Rochester:

Natural law is nothing more than hard science in relation to biology, physics, chemistry, etc.

Man-made law is a fairly arbitrary concept that changes and interacts differently. You could say economics incorporates that, but that isn't economics in its own right.

Neither of those changes the fact that human action is based on natural and man-made laws.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Esuric — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:30:59 GMT

Wilmot of Rochester:
I think you're confusing the public policy Mises with the economics Mises. The Theory of Money and Credit had both in it, but the better part was dominated by the economics Mises.

You never read the theory of money and credit.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Wilmot of Rochester — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:03:48 GMT

Spideynw:

banned:

Spideynw:
Economics and law are intertwined.

What part of law is wertfrei?

Economics is the study of human action. Human action is based on both natural and man-made law.

Natural law is nothing more than hard science in relation to biology, physics, chemistry, etc.

Man-made law is a fairly arbitrary concept that changes and interacts differently. You could say economics incorporates that, but that isn't economics in its own right.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Spideynw — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:22:20 GMT

banned:

Spideynw:
Economics and law are intertwined.

What part of law is wertfrei?

Economics is the study of human action. Human action is based on both natural and man-made law.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:51:48 GMT

I think you are ignoring the fact that private property was as central to Mises understanding as to Rothbards.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Wilmot of Rochester — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:47:02 GMT

nirgrahamUK:

I think Boettke is flat out wrong in pretending that rothbard is somehow 'more propertarian' than Mises... (aside from the obvious case whcih he does not mention, which is in the market for law and security... but anyhow more generally...)

were statements like these made by Rothbard or Mises?

Private property of the material factors of production is not a restriction of the freedom of all other people to choose what suits them best. It is, on the contrary, the means that assigns to the common man, in his capacity as a buyer, supremacy in all economic affairs. It is the means to stimulate a nation's most enterprising men to exert themselves to the best of their abilities in the service of all of the people.

"A government that sets out to abolish market prices is inevitably driven toward the abolition of private property; it has to recognize that there is no middle way between the system of private property in the means of production combined with free contract, and the system of common ownership of the means of production, or socialism. It is gradually forced toward compulsory production, universal obligation to labor, rationing of consumption, and, finally, official regulation of the whole of production and consumption.

I think you're confusing the public policy Mises with the economics Mises. The Theory of Money and Credit had both in it, but the better part was dominated by the economics Mises.

EDIT: In contrast Rothbard really doesn't have that distinguishment. Everything for Rothbard is public policy and you shouldn't do this or you should do that. The differences are subtle, of course, but there nonetheless.

Though I get that you'll defend Rothbard to the death, this is just how I and many others not taken in by the man see it.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:45:41 GMT

The foundation of any and every civilization, including our own, is private ownership of the means of production. Whoever wishes to criticize modern civilization, therefore, begins with private property.

The program of liberalism, therefore, if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property, that is, private ownership of the means of production. . . . All the other demands of liberalism result from this fundamental demand.

The essential teaching of liberalism is that social cooperation and the division of labor can be achieved only in a system of private ownership of the means of production, i.e., within a market society, or capitalism. All the other principles of liberalismdemocracy, personal freedom of the individual, freedom of speech and of the press, religious tolerance, peace among the nationsare consequences of this basic postulate. They can be realized only within a society based on private property

and on and on

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:43:31 GMT

I think Boettke is flat out wrong in pretending that rothbard is somehow 'more propertarian' than Mises... (aside from the obvious case whcih he does not mention, which is in the market for law and security... but anyhow more generally...)

were statements like these made by Rothbard or Mises?

Private property of the material factors of production is not a restriction of the freedom of all other people to choose what suits them best. It is, on the contrary, the means that assigns to the common man, in his capacity as a buyer, supremacy in all economic affairs. It is the means to stimulate a nation's most enterprising men to exert themselves to the best of their abilities in the service of all of the people.

"A government that sets out to abolish market prices is inevitably driven toward the abolition of private property; it has to recognize that there is no middle way between the system of private property in the means of production combined with free contract, and the system of common ownership of the means of production, or socialism. It is gradually forced toward compulsory production, universal obligation to labor, rationing of consumption, and, finally, official regulation of the whole of production and consumption.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Wilmot of Rochester — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:33:11 GMT

nirgrahamUK:

INTERVIEWER: Some of those debates became very, very heated. I think [Ludwig] von Mises once stormed out.

MILTON FRIEDMAN: Oh, yes, he did. Yes, in the middle of a debate on the subject of distribution of income, in which you had people who you would hardly call socialist or egalitarian -- people like Lionel Robbins, like George Stigler, like Frank Knight, like myself -- Mises got up and said, "You're all a bunch of socialists," and walked right out of the room. (laughs) But Mises was a person of very strong views and rather intolerant about any differences of opinion.

It isn't really comparable.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:30:38 GMT

there is good tolerance and bad tolerance. i hope that story about Mises and Friedman is true.

Propertarianism is where its @ . yo.

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

Juan — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:26:23 GMT

But Mises was a person of very strong views and rather intolerant about any differences of opinion.

Too bad Mises considered himself an 'utilitarian' - whatever that means. On the other hand, it's lovely how people like Friedman are willing to murder any dissenter that refuses to pay taxes, while at the same time regard themselves as 'tolerant' libertarians ...

Re: Is it ever a good idea to print money?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:13:08 GMT

INTERVIEWER: Some of those debates became very, very heated. I think [Ludwig] von Mises once stormed out.

MILTON FRIEDMAN: Oh, yes, he did. Yes, in the middle of a debate on the subject of distribution of income, in which you had people who you would hardly call socialist or egalitarian -- people like Lionel Robbins, like George Stigler, like Frank Knight, like myself -- Mises got up and said, "You're all a bunch of socialists," and walked right out of the room. (laughs) But Mises was a person of very strong views and rather intolerant about any differences of opinion.