Economics Questions

Re: The National Health Service

Natalie — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:24:39 GMT

xahrx:
I am thinking the answer to the healthcare 'crisis' is to nationalize. Then, as with education, when the system starts breaking down only the most delluded leftists will be able to blame the market.

But they won't blame the government. They will simply start asking for more funds and more taxes and more government control.

xahrx:
I'm begining to think the only way to beat socialism in this world is to let it kill itself.

When did that ever happen? Socialism/communism policies already killed millions of people, but does it stop anyone? No, "we'll just do it differently this time".

It's easy to dismiss socialism as simple folly if you haven't lived under it. Most of the supporters might be useful idiots, but those who push the socialism on us are not. Their goal is total control and healthcare is only one area. They don't care if they kill millions of people in the process. In fact, it might very well be their true agenda.

Re: The National Health Service

Spideynw — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:15:49 GMT

xahrx:

Spideynw:
Really? There are people that like extortion and slavery?

Very few.

I do not know of anyone that would prefer to be extorted over not being extorted or enslaved over being free.

xahrx:
There are however quite a lot of people who don't equate with extortion and slavery the millenia old social institutions that you equate with extortion and slavery.

It does not change the fact that it is extortion and slavery. Just because they deny reality does not change reality.

xahrx:
Nor are they likely to be responsive to off the cuff assertions to that point.

It still does not change reality, that at heart they are anarchists, since they think extortion and slavery are wrong.

xahrx:
You must realize that people who disagree with you, even when they are wrong, are not necessarily morons or malicious in nature or intent.

People who are not consistent in their beliefs are morons.

Re: The National Health Service

Natalie — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:04:49 GMT

liberty student:
I am leaning in this direction. Just make sure I have enough for private care for me and mine, and let everyone else line up and die on waiting lists.

Under socialism, good healthcare is only for politically connected or those willing to pay off the books.

They already made it harder for us to use natural treatments.

liberty student:
It is not my cross to bear to carry water for people who are too blind to see and resist appeals for them to pay attention. Like Mencken said, (paraphrased) "In a democracy people deserve to get what they want, good and hard". And I agree. Give them bread and circuses.

I agree that as individuals we can't change much except help ourselves and our families. I'm seriously starting to stockpile long-lasting food and vitamins.

Re: The National Health Service

liberty student — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:34:11 GMT

xahrx:
I'm begining to think the only way to beat socialism in this world is to let it kill itself.

I am leaning in this direction. Just make sure I have enough for private care for me and mine, and let everyone else line up and die on waiting lists.

It is not my cross to bear to carry water for people who are too blind to see and resist appeals for them to pay attention. Like Mencken said, (paraphrased) "In a democracy people deserve to get what they want, good and hard". And I agree. Give them bread and circuses.

Re: The National Health Service

xahrx — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:13:53 GMT

Spideynw:
Really? There are people that like extortion and slavery?

Very few. There are however quite a lot of people who don't equate with extortion and slavery the millenia old social institutions that you equate with extortion and slavery. Nor are they likely to be responsive to off the cuff assertions to that point. You must realize that people who disagree with you, even when they are wrong, are not necessarily morons or malicious in nature or intent.

I am thinking the answer to the healthcare 'crisis' is to nationalize. Then, as with education, when the system starts breaking down only the most delluded leftists will be able to blame the market. Everyone else will see it is the government's screw up and, as with education, the only real answers will be to open the markets up, however slowly. I'm begining to think the only way to beat socialism in this world is to let it kill itself. Like a heart attack patient who won't lay off the McDonalds and the cigarettes, maybe it's best to just let him kill himself and start over, or get so close to the brink that he has no choice but to see the error of his ways. For whatever reason people these days focus on our most regulated markets and blame their problems on freedom, and they seem impervious to reality ever being able to creep in and influence their views. The government has always failed them and yet it's where they always look to for solutions. Things are extremely out of joint. Perhaps shock trearment and letting the dellussion run its course is the only way to proceed.

Re: The National Health Service

Spideynw — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:51:05 GMT

scineram:
Do not freak out, hold your composure, because you are wrong.

So there are people that like to be extorted and enslaved?

Re: The National Health Service

scineram — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:09:33 GMT

Spideynw:

scineram:

Are you trying to dispute that someone is not anarchist?

I am.

Do not freak out, hold your composure, because you are wrong.

Re: The National Health Service

Spideynw — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:54:42 GMT

I. Ryan:

Spideynw:

Really?

Yes. Most people.

Yes, everyone is an anarchist?

I. Ryan:

Spideynw:

There are people that like extortion and slavery?

Yes. But, not most people.

Really? Can you find me one? And remember, liking extortion means "to like being extorted". Liking slavery means "to like being enslaved".

Re: The National Health Service

Spideynw — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:53:07 GMT

scineram:

Are you trying to dispute that someone is not anarchist?

I am.

Re: The National Health Service

I. Ryan — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:41:25 GMT

Spideynw:

Really?

Yes. Most people.

Spideynw:

There are people that like extortion and slavery?

Yes. But, not most people.

Re: The National Health Service

scineram — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:40:53 GMT

Are you trying to dispute that someone is not anarchist?

Re: The National Health Service

Spideynw — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:39:25 GMT

scineram:

Not everyone is an anarchist.

Really? There are people that like extortion and slavery?

Re: The National Health Service

scineram — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:19:00 GMT

Not everyone is an anarchist. And he is a much better speaker than say Rambling Paul.

Re: The National Health Service

liberty student — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:52:50 GMT

I know Hoppe has Gabb to his conference in Turkey, but I think SG is pretty overrated as a libertarian. I read a lot of quasi-middle of the road stuff, and not much radical anarchism. It's not just this piece, but others as well.

He does make a good point about the NHS, its not all bad. Likewise in Canada, the system here sometimes works. But it is coercive, it is unsustainable, and it is economically irrational (calculation). I have personally been put through excess pain and suffering by a system that doesn't care if I am treated, or treated well.

I feel bad for Daniel Hannan, who went out on a limb, and European libertarians don't seem to embrace him the way American libertarians have.

Re: The National Health Service

scineram — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:47:05 GMT

It is obvious most some functions cannot simply be defunded withoutsome transition.