Economics Questions

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

Caley McKibbin — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:12:06 GMT

There is no such thing as usury.

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

DanielMuff — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:09:47 GMT

Lilburne:

Part of Christianity's problem with usury stems from Aristotelean scholasticism (especially that of St. Thomas). Aristotle deemed interest "unnatural" because money is "barren" (it doesn't produce anything).

This.

MariusAureus:

I do not say that there is any "cutoff point", so I am far from opposing this practice in legal sense, or sending anyone to hell.
I do say that usury is a matter of human relations under particular circumstances - usually extremely hard for *only one* of the sides.

In my view (as above) usurers are nothing but brutish thugs robbering the weakest...

So why isn't 5% considered usury?

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

Daniel James Sanchez — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:00:35 GMT

Part of Christianity's problem with usury stems from Aristotelean scholasticism (especially that of St. Thomas). Aristotle deemed interest "unnatural" because money is "barren" (it doesn't produce anything).

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

MariusAureus — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:57:37 GMT

DD5:
Please enlighten us. How high does it need to be? What is the cutoff point between valid interest and usury?

I do not say that there is any "cutoff point", so I am far from opposing this practice in legal sense, or sending anyone to hell.
I do say that usury is a matter of human relations under particular circumstances - usually extremely hard for *only one* of the sides.

In my view (as above) usurers are nothing but brutish thugs robbering the weakest...

I surely do not befriend them - that's all...

Enlightened?

As for me - EOT.

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

DD5 — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:01:17 GMT

MariusAuerus:

Daniel:
So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement?
Usury is usually more than healthy i.e. market rate - I think you know that... ;-)

Please enlighten us. How high does it need to be? What is the cutoff point between valid interest and usury?

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

DanielMuff — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:00:42 GMT

MariusAureus:

Daniel:

So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement?

Usury is usually more than healthy i.e. market rate - I think you know that... ;-)

What is it exactly?

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

MariusAureus — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:50:44 GMT

Daniel:

So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement?

Usury is usually more than healthy i.e. market rate - I think you know that... ;-)

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

Saan — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:50:33 GMT

No but 5% per day, maybe.

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

Physiocrat — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:49:03 GMT

A point on usury in the Bible- it is highly debated what it actually means and I wouldn't side with the simple interest definition; it is more likely to be punitive interest rates. If you look at the the context where it is described pejoratively it is the context of exploiting the poor. ie you shouldn't do it. Also other usages are in regards family of tribes of the nation of Israel and as such you cannot seperate usury from the purpose of the Mosaic law- to point to Christ as the one who would crush the serpents head prophesised in Genesis 3 and an attempt to bring the kingdom of God on earth through Israel. the latter point explains aspects of the Mosiac law which may not seem Rothbardian since the aim was keeping the land in israel's and the specific tribes hands.

Now in the NT the locus of the kingdom of God is not a piece of land inhabited by the Israelites but in Church which may explain the complete absence of any teaching on usury in the NT. I would go as far to say that the NT endorses interest in the parable of the talents where one man is commended for putting money in a bank, essentially anyway, which earns interest and is called a good steward.

In conclusion it's not as clear as you may think at first.

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

DanielMuff — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:40:57 GMT

MariusAureus:

Usury is simple method of enslaving people in despair... It has nothing to do with profit or interest.

So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement?

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

MariusAureus — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:36:24 GMT

Usury is simple method of enslaving people in despair... It has nothing to do with profit or interest.
Also - many people do not understand clearly the compound percent - the fee is understandable for anyone.

Re: Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

nirgrahamUK — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:46:24 GMT

yes,yes

Why is usury so bad in Chrisianity, Islam, Judaism

inquisitiveteenager — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:09:52 GMT

If religions are opposed to usury, wouldn't that mean they have to be opposed to profits?

Most religions charge a fee on a loan instad of interest but aren't they the same thing?

It's just two different words for the same thing.