Economics Questions

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

JAlanKatz — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:52:16 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:

He advocated ending The Federal War on Drugs, but he raised a really good point. If Marijuana were legal for recreational use and then made a taxable income, it would be financially beneficial. However, once The Government raises the tax on Marijuana we will again be in a War on Drugs, because users will retreat to The Black Market once more to get it for cheaper. I'm not sure how to refute this. Here in Connecticut there was a tax on tobacco and cigarettes and it went to hell.

I'm not seeing what needs to be refuted. Legalizing it and taxing it causes problems - an easy solution is to legalize and not to tax it.

Democracy for Breakfast:
Additionally, what is a non-statist way to control recreational drug use? I mean if we legalized all the drugs(Heroine, Crack, Cocaine, ect).

I used to be interested in this question. However, as time as gone by, I've become more and more convinced of the thick libertarian mindset, to wit, that social coercion is also a bad thing, just not quite as bad as physical coercion. I believe it is a positive good that people live their lives as they see fit, and I don't think sacrificing any, or any minor pleasure, to social welfare is acceptable.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Novus Zarathustra — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:28:29 GMT

teuch:
How is this different to buying produce at a farmer's market as opposed to purchasing them in the store? A market may be cheaper (slightly) but is less convenient, not as clean, occasionally dubious quality. How high does he think the taxes will be raised, enough to make people seek out 'black market' dealers?

High enough to meet inflation, so that we would profit from the income of the taxation.

It doesn't matter which market is better, the black market is dangerous. Unless the Fed abolishes the DEA, which they won't, we will be in the war on drugs again.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

teuch — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:20:30 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:
However, once The Government raises the tax on Marijuana we will again be in a War on Drugs, because users will retreat to The Black Market once more to get it for cheaper.

How is this different to buying produce at a farmer's market as opposed to purchasing them in the store? A market may be cheaper (slightly) but is less convenient, not as clean, occasionally dubious quality. How high does he think the taxes will be raised, enough to make people seek out 'black market' dealers?

And I don't think it follows that "Product A is cheaper on black market" therefore "War on Product A".

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Novus Zarathustra — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:48:08 GMT

Snowflake:

Democracy for Breakfast:
You just shouldn't do it on the job. I've done Acid, and I am "straight in the head".
But some of the active ingredient gets stored in your spine, so they think it might make you have a flashback attack while you're on the job.

There's also a strong anti drug culture in the corporate offices. I don't think the anti-drug culture is appropriate to apply to children, but it has more merit in corporate affairs.

Imagine you are investing a quarter of a billion dollars onto an offshore drilling rig. The technical complexity of these platforms rivals modern space shuttles. I wouldn't want drugs anywhere near this project.

Myth: LSD Stays in your mind/body/spine forever

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Libertarian_for_Life — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:46:28 GMT

I'm suspicious that the biggest lobbying group against the general legalization of controlled substances are the drug peddlers themselves...

I have no doubt that they are, Al Capone loved that Prohibition period...

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Hard Rain — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:42:06 GMT

I'm suspicious that the biggest lobbying group against the general legalization of controlled substances are the drug peddlers themselves...

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Libertarian_for_Life — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:39:12 GMT

Additionally, what is a non-statist way to control recreational drug use?

To do nothing, there is no need for our overlords to tell us what we can and can not do.

And for the love of god don't tax it. I hate people that use that argument...

If you tax it, then there is more money in the government's hands, that is never good.

And everyone in the country isn't going to turn into potheads if we legalize it. A lot of people don't realize that we have some pretty intense legal drugs like salvia.

Also, if I wanted to, I have like 10 friends that could hook me up with weed without the thumbs up by the government.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Wanderer — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:27:00 GMT

One free-market way to lower drug usage would be to eliminate tobacco subsidies, assuming tobacco is a "gateway" drug.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

E. R. Olovetto — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:30:03 GMT

Snowflake:

But some of the active ingredient gets stored in your spine.

This myth is not true.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

EinarFridgeirs — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:07:05 GMT

He advocated ending The Federal War on Drugs, but he raised a really good point. If Marijuana were legal for recreational use and then made a taxable income, it would be financially beneficial. However, once The Government raises the tax on Marijuana we will again be in a War on Drugs, because users will retreat to The Black Market once more to get it for cheaper. I'm not sure how to refute this.

One way to counter this is that purchasing things on the black markets involve some pretty heavy transaction costs.

1. You are breking the law which for most people is a stressful experience at the best o times, and exposes you to possible additional costs down the line

2. You have no consumer protection - you can't sue your supplier if he sells you a substandard product

3. If you get into debt with black markets suppliers, they can only enforce their claims on you through violence. Most people think that's a big fat minus.

In the current system, there's no alternative. If you want drugs, you have to bear the transaction costs. If there is a legal alternative, how many people would be willing to pay slightly more for avoiding all the hassles that come with black market buying?

Let's take an example: I smoke cigarettes, and they are pretty damn expensive in Iceland. I know there is a black market in smuggled cigarettes, and if I really wanted I probably could go out and find a supplier that would sell me eastern European cigarettes at a substantially lower price. But, at least at the current prices, I´d rather pay more and just walk across the street to the nearest kiosk than jump through hoops to acquire cheap smokes - and a substantial part of that additional cost is because of taxation.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

The Rev — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:58:08 GMT

Ironic, isn't it? The statist says that people are not responsible enough to make their own decisions, yet they seem to forget that the regulators chosen to bear that responsibility on our behalf are just as human, and therefore, not responsible enough. Perhaps we need to find a race of aliens to rule us?

The Rev

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Sieben — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:48:20 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:
You just shouldn't do it on the job. I've done Acid, and I am "straight in the head".

But some of the active ingredient gets stored in your spine, so they think it might make you have a flashback attack while you're on the job.

There's also a strong anti drug culture in the corporate offices. I don't think the anti-drug culture is appropriate to apply to children, but it has more merit in corporate affairs.

Imagine you are investing a quarter of a billion dollars onto an offshore drilling rig. The technical complexity of these platforms rivals modern space shuttles. I wouldn't want drugs anywhere near this project.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Novus Zarathustra — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:36:38 GMT

Snowflake:

Democracy for Breakfast:
Additionally, what is a non-statist way to control recreational drug use? I mean if we legalized all the drugs(Heroine, Crack, Cocaine, ect).
Employers aren't exactly happy about drug users. The reason I don't do drugs is not b/c of legality, its b/c my boss wants me to be straight in the head.

Otherwise, I would be doing acid right now.

You just shouldn't do it on the job. I've done Acid, and I am "straight in the head".

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

wilderness — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:30:35 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:

I could agree with that.

Democracy for Breakfast:

However, all the statists say the teens are not responsible enough...

Statists say ALL people are not responsible enough. Statists are pessimistic about human nature and don't share in the optimism that comes with people living in liberty.

Re: Legalization of Marjiuana for Recreational use

Sieben — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:11:34 GMT

Democracy for Breakfast:
Additionally, what is a non-statist way to control recreational drug use? I mean if we legalized all the drugs(Heroine, Crack, Cocaine, ect).

Employers aren't exactly happy about drug users. The reason I don't do drugs is not b/c of legality, its b/c my boss wants me to be straight in the head.

Otherwise, I would be doing acid right now.