Economics Questions

Re: how the public is brainwashed

Kakugo — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:42:53 GMT

In my experience (please do not be offended) people who end working in banks are those with the worst grasping of even the most basic economics. Maybe my view is biased simply because 99.9% of bank clerks/directors/whatever around here are there simply because they were "commended" by relatives and friends instead of being selected because of their capabilities. They are like any supermarket employee (with the difference that a supermarket employee is usually much more knowledgeable around his/her job), just much better paid and with a lot less possibilities of being sacked if something goes wrong. Even "financial advisors" know nothing about economics and they are there simply to push on unsuspecting (and badly informed, I may say) customers what the bank headquarters say. That's how the various "junk bonds" crisises came along.

Now for the "remembrance" part, which is becoming a quite common feature of my rants and probably shows how decrepit I am. Back when I was in school I was asked to "cover up" for the history and philosophy teacher who had to skip a few lessons. I was picked because pretty much everybody else refused the assignment. I do not remember exactly every single thing I was to teach but I do remember that one of the lessons was about Fascism in Italy. Now, the official version is of course that fascists were very, very bad men who somehow made it to the power and then held down the populace by means of simple violence. Being so twisted and evil they are of course to be much despised at every possible occasion. Instead of relying on the standard school textbooks I did a bit of research and patched together a few facts I knew from my family (my grandfather had served in the Air Force as a mechanic during the war and my great-grandfather had been a mayor in pre WWII Fascist Italy). Well you could not imgine the looks of amazement and disbelief on my schoolmates' faces when I told them, for example, that the Fascists had won the elections fairly and squarely, that you had to be a member of the Fascist Party if you wanted to something as simple running for mayor of a small mountain village or become a store manager. They had been taught that fascists were all evil men, probably hiding tails and horns under their clothes. Strange thing then that Mussolini is still so influential in politics, even on the Left. Same thing about the colonial venture in Africa. They had been taught that Italians (which of course were different from Fascists) went to Africa to build roads, hospitals and to bring bread to the starving children. It's the myth of the "Good Italian". They didn't imagine that Italian colonial occupation was as every bit as brutal as the French or Belgian one and that the "roads and hospitals" were not destined to the "natives" but to their masters and their watchdogs.

I know I must keep my rants to a minimum.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

kingmonkey — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:06:12 GMT

Ego:

I wouldn't say they are "brainwashed". I went through leftist-propganda-spewing government schools, too, and I turned out just fine. They are capable of changing, they just choose not to.

I went through them myself. I dabbled in socialism for a while but quickly realized that it doesn't work. My conversion to a full blown anarchist has only been a recent one. My early comments on this forum were very minarchist. But the truth of the matter is most people don't change because they don't know what else is out there. I only found out about Austrian economic theory and libertarian thought by accident. I was doing some research on something and ran across the Alex Jones website Infowars.com. It was from him that I found out about Ron Paul who led me to Lew Rockwell which took me to the LvMI website (this was all well before Ron Paul was cool).

A guy I work with was a very middle of the road guy but after a year and a half of slowly injecting libertarian thought into our political conversions he has progressed to the point where he is now more libertarian than anything else. But most people are content to sit around and watch Fox News and CNN and listen to whatever they are told so long as they can drive their SUV's and eat fast food every night.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

Ego — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:02:01 GMT

I wouldn't say they are "brainwashed". I went through leftist-propganda-spewing government schools, too, and I turned out just fine. They are capable of changing, they just choose not to.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

Spideynw — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:43:21 GMT

I definitely think government education is one of our biggest enemies to truth. The other is the mainstream media.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

mr_anonymous — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:53:19 GMT

Jon Irenicus:
Definitely, I agree. What really needs to be done away with are these ridiculous child labour laws and the notion of a "right" to education (i.e. a right to enslave others to "educate" the masses, because they MUST be inculcated... er.. educated.)

Exactly, how can anyone think that coercive government/tax funded monopoly on education is a good thing? Compulsory education and Child Labor Laws are ridiculous and they take opportunities away from kids who want to get a head start in an apprenticeship, or just dont want to go to college. You are exactly right, the "Right to education" is not a right, but an enslavement.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

Jon Irenicus — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:23:29 GMT

Definitely, I agree. What really needs to be done away with are these ridiculous child labour laws and the notion of a "right" to education (i.e. a right to enslave others to "educate" the masses, because they MUST be inculcated... er.. educated.)

-Jon

Re: how the public is brainwashed

maxpot46 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:17:09 GMT

kingmonkey:
They go to college completely unprepared and when they graduate from there they get a job and must be retrained by their new employers so they can do the job they were hired for.

This is the case even with the geniuses. School teaches nothing of functional value... a diploma simply alerts employers that you can be trained, which will be their primary focus upon hiring you.

This seems as good a time as any to remind young folks that the secret to success is not getting a diploma then grinding away for the man as a cog in the machine, as your health deteriorates while sitting in an office pecking at a computer all day. Success lies in learning a craft by working in that sector as an apprentice for a master, making connections and socking away savings (aka capital). After learning enough, you strike out on your own, using your saved capital and network to set up your own business. Now you are the master, and you take on apprentices, and the cycle repeats. This is the entreprenuerial way, the Austrian way, the natural way. This current Prussian-style system that churns out corporate drones is relatively new and, of course, an abomination. School is not only unnecessary for most teens but counter-productive. Only the low percentage of scholars should pursue school. Most should enter the workforce early, to give them time to see enough different fields to choose one that suits them. The current system is totally retarded in that respect.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

kingmonkey — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:02:45 GMT

Government run indoctrination camps (ie. public schools) are to blame for all of our problems. Take Texas for example. I don't know about other states but here we have what is called the TAKS test (formerly the TAAS). TAKS stands for Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills. It is suppose to measure how well students are progressing through school. Now, in general, I have no issue with standardized testing. Test are a great way to have a base measure of ones progress. The issue with TAKS is that you must pass it to progress to the next grade or to graduate. So you could be a high school senior with straight A's all throughout high school, have a 4.0 GPA, fail the TAKS and be held back or have to go to summer school to take it again. This causes a lot of anxiety with students. Now, the bigger issue is that because so much emphasis is placed on passing this test just what do you think teachers are teaching their students? They teach what is likely to be on the test. This creates a very narrow spectrum of knowledge and when they come out of school they are really nothing more than functional morons. They go to college completely unprepared and when they graduate from there they get a job and must be retrained by their new employers so they can do the job they were hired for.

But what these state required test and public schools do is churn out hundreds of thousands of "good Americans" who never question the state or its authority over their lives. They never question the slanted history presented to them in those public schools and never see the real damage the state has done in this country. Nor do they learn about the atrocities this nation has committed in the name of "defending liberty" and "spreading democracy."

Re: how the public is brainwashed

mr_anonymous — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:19:07 GMT

maxpot46:

Home schooling for the win! Things are bad enough in my son's 1st grade that I've decided he isn't seeing 2nd.

Haha, if only my parents had done the same... lol

Re: how the public is brainwashed

maxpot46 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:15:08 GMT

Home schooling for the win! Things are bad enough in my son's 1st grade that I've decided he isn't seeing 2nd.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

mr_anonymous — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:47:56 GMT

katja328:
the Fed saved America from the Great Depression and that the only reason we had a depression in the first place was because the Fed hadn't been created. He actually thought that this was what he was taught in school

I am currently in my eleventh year of public school, and I must say that this is what is taught. The teacher's just read it straight out of the book, and nobody questions it. I just did a research paper for my history class on the Great Depression of 1929. I stated that the depression was only aggravated by interference through the Fed and Hoover's/FDR's central planning policies. I said that if the situation was left to itself, the economy would have to return to normal, pre-boom, conditions. Essentially, I wrote that the Great Depression was caused by monetary intervention on behalf of the Fed (causing the booming 1920s), and worsened by the abandonment of Harding's laissez-faire policies. The free market nearly served as a scapegoat.

When I got my paper back the other day, I had an entire page of criticism on the free market and my observations on the depression. My teacher is very intelligent with historical facts, but is fairly ignorant in economics, in other words: the typical leftist. He stated that he didnt know much about the Austrian School and he didnt think that they were credible because they disagree with the mainstream keynesian school. It is pretty ridiculous. I sit in class everyday and he preaches the same old tune that the government is the solution to all our problems, and that if capitalism was left unchecked, it would be a disaster.

Well, now that I got all that rambling out of the way (I get so frustrated sitting through that class and watching all the other kids take notes on his "government is your buddy" propaganda. I need a place to let some steam off Haha.) I would like to say that I do agree with you... sort of. Public schooling is only giving half the story, but they are doing on purpose in order to advance big government ideals on students.

p.s I read most of America's Great Depression. Awesome book. If that can help a 16 year old kid with the Great Depression, then it should help the teller re-examine his position too.

Re: how the public is brainwashed

Libertas est Veritas — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:00:57 GMT

Sounds pretty standard. I seem to recall someones blog post on anti-capitalism in European public schools. My personal experience has been one of more or less covert indoctrination. The idea of common good is heavily entrenched into the minds of European youths, and I'm sure this applies to US youths as well.

how the public is brainwashed

katja328 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:53:52 GMT

This might not really belong into this category.

Yesterday, as I went to the bank I was talking to the teller about how the fees for certain things just keep on increasing. The teller's response was that banks needed to make money somehow. I then asked him if he thought the fed's mismanagement had anything to do with ever increasing fees and banks needing to acquire money in all sorts of ways. The teller said "I don't know. I don't think the Fed is as bad as everybody makes it out to be"

I chuckled and asked him what he thought the source of our economic challenges was. He didn't know. But then told me that it was his understanding that the Fed saved America from the Great Depression and that the only reason we had a depression in the first place was because the Fed hadn't been created. He actually thought that this was what he was taught in school.

Wouldn't surprise me to be perfectly honest. I believe that schools (public schools) are teaching not necessarily wrong information, but giving students only part of the facts. That's essentially the same as wrong information and leads to a society of brainwashed people

Anyways, I told him that he should do some research and that I would bring him a couple of books. I printed a copy of Rothbards "America's Great Depression" and "The case against the Fed"

I can't wait to have a follow up chat with him :-p