Economics Questions

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

MatthewM — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:34:11 GMT

I don't believe anything is holiding back the electric car. Most people want a means of personal conveyance, and don't really care about what goes on behind the scenes to make that happen. The relative few who do care about electric cars are served by the niche players that are already out there.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

ViennaSausage — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:04:40 GMT

Here are more! Just ran into this a few seconds ago.

http://venturebeat.com/2008/01/10/27-electric-cars-companies-ready-to-take-over-the-road/

So many to choose from, but only the fittest will survive, sans government mandates or intervention. BTW, just a little tidbit, some of the very first cars in the early 1900's were electric competed with gas. It was government intervention which lead to gas being the status quo for cars. The battle continues...

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

FreedomIsYellow — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:49:46 GMT

I think if we hadn't had government subsidised roads and oil in the first place we might not be having this conversation. Maybe we'd be thinking of the next place to whizz to in our flying cars rather than travelling down some restricted pieces of tarmac ;)

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

ViennaSausage — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:20:44 GMT

Libertas est Veritas:
I'd agree, though the Tesla Roadster's 3,9 second 0-60 is quite competitive with other cars in the same price range. But current reasonably priced electric cars aren't proper cars.

Absolutely, when you take price in the consideration for high performance.

I am actually intrigued with the ideas behind the aptera. It breaks the convention of how cars are designed, both in a visual sense, and also technical sense. If the aptera is successful, more power to them. However, if it is not, there is much other car companies can learn from their designs.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

Libertas est Veritas — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:08:16 GMT

maxpot46:
It just seems to me that pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, you will get a better gas-powered car.

I'd agree, though the Tesla Roadster's 3,9 second 0-60 is quite competitive with other cars in the same price range. But current reasonably priced electric cars aren't proper cars.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

ViennaSausage — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:52:50 GMT

maxpot46:
Any market that exists for these cars was created by the government with their regulations, brainwashing and taxation/enmity/fear of oil.

Take this quote and transpose it to the early 1900's. Ironically it was government who caused the onslaught of cars in the first place.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

maxpot46 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:50:32 GMT

It just seems to me that pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, you will get a better gas-powered car.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

ViennaSausage — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:50:24 GMT

Stolz25:
The inevitable problems and hassles that come whenever someone brings something new to the marketplace. First adopters of any technology generally get a whole host of problems with their cool new toys if it is genuinely new.

I can actually attest to this. I bought the Second Generation Prius when it came out, and before they were cool and green chic. My thinking was that since it was G2, it would have less bugs than the G1. However, since a lot of the technology was no computerized, I was expecting some bugs. However, knowing the quality and customer service Toyota had built with there petro cars, I knew I was in good hands if there was ever a problem. Toyota took car of all the bugs. After the first few bugs, I haven't ran into any in the past 4 years.

IMHO, the first adopters in anything play a vital role. They are the risky ones, the ones willing to take the chance on something new. They don't know if it is going to catch on, or if its doomed to failure. They take a guess that it will succeed. (Obviously, some just do it to be the first).

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

ViennaSausage — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:42:42 GMT

maxpot46:
Non-problems: global warming, CO2 emissions, carbon footprint, peak oil

These are debatable, and I understand many if not most libertarians thinke these are non-problems. We can debate/discuss if you like on another thread.

maxpot46:
weak engines leading to a lack of pickup/acceleration leading to a lack of manueverability leading to more accidents,

The Tesla was actually designed as a sports car. It's acceleration is on par with many petro-sports car.

As for the other arguements sans body styles, the original questioner was looking for a 2 seater with decent range. I was giving suggestions in response to that question. But for the time being, extreme long distances and lack of recharging stations appear to be hindering their adoption, not to mention governmental regulations.

I must point out, however, that the two options I suggested utilize just a plain old plug to recharge. Wherever there is an outlet, there is a place for recharge.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

maxpot46 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:37:10 GMT

That's because it's not about the environment, it's about power. THERE IS NO PROBLEM. Any market that exists for these cars was created by the government with their regulations, brainwashing and taxation/enmity/fear of oil.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

Libertas est Veritas — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:32:59 GMT

maxpot46:
The fact that oil is cheap and plentiful is holding back electric cars.

I would argue that there is already a market for electric cars. Especially in Europe. Which is why I was wondering if it was merely a question of the technology not being ready. Perhaps I'm getting paranoid, but it seems everything is held back by governments. Take for example diesel cars in Finland: the Greens are in government and all the major parties swear by environmentalism, but they have still failed to remove punitive taxation of diesel cars and are keeping more polluting petrol cars in use.

Seems the environmentalists are quite worried about the environment when it comes to taxing people, but less so when it comes to actually reducing pollution (and the interest drops to zero when it involves losing tax income). And this includes the 'real' environmentalists as well, since they usually hold unto some irrational expectation that pink unicorns will provide all the power in the world and there is no need for intermediate solutions, like evil nuclear power. That, or they just want everyone to live in vegan communes. Those that survive the resulting famine, that is.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

ViennaSausage — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:32:51 GMT

CurtHowland:
The most important thing is to get government out of the way as quickly and completely as possible. Then the price system can correctly communicate the relative scarcity of resources, so that we can know whether going through the hassle and expense of getting an electric car is worth it compared to using gasoline.

Ironically it was government which caused the onslaught of cars in the first place.

CurtHowland:

The cars are cute, yes, but I have to carry both of us, both kids in car-seats, the stroller and chairs just to go to soccer on Saturday morning. And I'd like to go shopping on the way home. A three-wheeled eurotrash design just doesn't cut it.

The original questioner was asking for 2 seater specs. I was answer that question.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

Stolz25 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:29:29 GMT

ViennaSausage:

Can you elaborate? What sorts of non-problems? What hassles?

The inevitable problems and hassles that come whenever someone brings something new to the marketplace. First adopters of any technology generally get a whole host of problems with their cool new toys if it is genuinely new. Look at the original hybrids, or CVT's (which are still crap if you ask Edmund's reviewers) or any rollout of a new software version. With an electric car batteries are more expensive, your trips are shorter, and fillup times are longer (if you can find a place to do it at all). Add to all that, as someone mentioned earlier, you still have to get that electricity somehow, which in the vast majority of cases is going to come from the same natural resources you are worried about using up.

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

maxpot46 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:25:29 GMT

ViennaSausage:

Can you elaborate? What sorts of non-problems? What hassles?

Non-problems: global warming, CO2 emissions, carbon footprint, peak oil

Hassles: weak engines leading to a lack of pickup/acceleration leading to a lack of manueverability leading to more accidents, finding a place to recharge (using petroleum-created electricity), inability to go on long road trips, extremely limited body styles

Re: What is holding back the electric car?

CurtHowland — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:20:57 GMT

ViennaSausage:

Let me know what you think!

The most important thing is to get government out of the way as quickly and completely as possible. Then the price system can correctly communicate the relative scarcity of resources, so that we can know whether going through the hassle and expense of getting an electric car is worth it compared to using gasoline.

The cars are cute, yes, but I have to carry both of us, both kids in car-seats, the stroller and chairs just to go to soccer on Saturday morning. And I'd like to go shopping on the way home. A three-wheeled eurotrash design just doesn't cut it.